AWES classification

There’s something else @dougselsam ?
I thought “all roads…”
We’ll make sure to find a place for an ST
®

Well Roddy don’t tell anybody but I do have a couple more compelling concepts up my sleeve, but for now, you’ve been quite vocal in noting the lack of recognition for more than just the others - the commonly-pursued paradigms. As I’ve pointed out many times, it reminded me of graffiti I saw on an outhouse wall at 8 years old: “Eat S*** - a million flies can’t be wrong!”. (That would be kite-reeling - a true “no-brainer” that most every team ended up chasing.) The other saying was the “Here I sit, broken-hearted” popular poem made into a hit song by Van Halen.
While we continue to see incredible-sounding numbers claimed for some of these commonly-pursued efforts, I remain skeptical. Something just doesn’t add up - if they work so well, why is there never one in actual operation - demos only(?). Big numbers for several years now, but where are the running systems?

Hi Doug, that’s what I thought, but now, there is SkySails 100 kW reeling-kite in actual operation, as indicated on AWES classification - #9 by rschmehl. Certainly I do not know what is the production of electricity, the number of AWES sold, their unit cost …

Hi @PierreB, and there is also Kitepower’s 100 kW system deployed on the Caribbean island of Aruba. They also have a home base in the Netherlands, in Melissant. There is a nice TV news feature (in Dutch) about the tests earlier this year.

Hi Pierre: I checked their website. Here’s a cut-paste (of a translation to English): “While numerous theoretical concepts have been proposed and the feasibility and potential of the use of high-altitude wind energy have been impressively demonstrated by a few prototypes, there is currently no flight wind turbine in automatic continuous operation. This knowledge gap is to be closed with this overall joint project.”
That reads like more “news of the future” to me.
I’d love to know more about whatever happened to the unit they shipped a year ago. :slight_smile:

Hi Doug,
Some news are linked and quoted on the comment, of which: “The SKS PN-14 achieves a high amount of full load hours (up to 6,000 full load hours/year).”

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Well Pierre, you seem to have forgotten your usual skepticism. It appears to me that the numerical figure you are citing is a generic, hypothetical number from a sales brochure that represents a (stretch-) goal, not an actual reported result. Please correct me if I got something wrong. Just trying to understand. As far as I know, the last we heard about that kite was that it had been “shipped to Asia” (?). I’ve searched for any followup information, several times since then, and never found a single mention of any further activity involving this mystery supposed wind energy system. Not one word. Have you not noticed the pattern yet? All AWE “news” can only be in the future-tense. Any followup to the story is then verboten, once the impressive-sounding future news has been released. You are then expected to forget everything you have heard, and wipe your mind clean, in preparation to eagerly accept the next “future news” story. Think “Altaeros”.

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And so you have, for years now.

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Right, but it is from their website:

And also I already asked some questions:

Here’s the most updated information I could find - AWE “news-of-the-future” - always stated in future-tense:
December 10, 2020

Kite Power For Mauritius

Wind power 2.0: Revolutionary airborne wind energy system to provide green power to the Republic of Mauritius

A new and innovative form of wind power will soon deliver green electricity to the Republic of Mauritius. Mauritian-based company IBL Energy Holdings Ltd. and German SkySails Power GmbH have agreed on the installation of an airborne wind energy system. Starting 2021, a large kite will lift off at the eastern coast of the island to generate electricity for the CEB grid from high-altitude winds.

Well… ?

By the way, I decided when this announcement was made one year ago, I would come back to revisit the topic in one year, pretty sure we would have heard no followup information or news of said system in actual use. A well-established pattern for “AWE”.

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Will likely be a worthwhile exercise in the AWES architectures WP5 to have (maybe revisit) an exploration of what are Essential and Non Essential requirements of an AWES
It’s a fundamental to research for design - To examine your options and potential solution space before choosing.
I can’t remember a research paper ever exploring this
E.g. maybe a list of
Essential-------------------------Non Essential
Operates in the air---------------Operates at high Altitude
Uses a kite-like-blade-----------Is a standard Kite
Uses one or more tethers------Uses a single tether

The selection and implementation of devices to fulfill these requirements, of course effects how a system performs
@jochem Weber presented an overview of
Realistic and effective AWE performance Assessment Criteria for successful technology development
at WESC2021 https://www.wesc2021.org/fileadmin/wesc2021/themes/10/BoA_-_Theme_10.pdf

Perhaps this classification could be modified by taking account of Proposed new terminology to align AWE with established wind energy.

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Here’s my take

Just classify by how the energy is being made. If you are on a moving vessel doesn’t really matter much. Also how to deploy [VTOL etc] is less interesting, or maybe make a separate classification diagram for that part.

classification.pdf (35.2 KB)

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Terms can be discussed. Apart this, Omnidea is in the same category as Guangdong, as drag type in the schema. I think both are yoyo systems. Perhaps reaching consistency with this schedule would be difficult.

I think @rschmehl classification is good and can be aligned with established wind power, because the already used terms like “lift” or “drag” or “downwind” are not used, and the specific terms of AWE (“crosswind”, “tether-aligned”…) are understandable.

The scientific publications should use the terms of this classification instead of confusing terms like “lift” or “drag” type.

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Hi Pierre
What I notice is that every decent windmill or wind turbine for the last 2000 years has been 100% crosswind. As I used to tell Santos, if someone has to actually SAY “crosswind” it tells you immediately they probably don’t know what they are doing.

Hi Doug,

Indeed both “crosswind” kites and blades of regular wind turbines work “crosswind”, even more for the last, although the blade sides close to the hub do not move much, unlike both sides of crosswind kites.

But crosswind kites are kites, while crosswind blades are blades. And not all kites are crosswind, since there are (in the AWE field) tethered-aligned kites.

I agree, @PierreB, that terms like “lift” or “drag” type need to be avoided.

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Classification Sheet Formats.pptx (165.3 KB)
This is the minimum set of data I’d recommend we use to classify AWES before we can start comparing models.

I’m quite certain the most common response to this form will be
Ooooh Pretty colours
The same response my Kite turbine designs used to get

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