@PierreB thank yu very much sir. your answer always gives me more knowledge than i require . your answers are really helping material for me .
sir as you said in your reply that AWE is not still mature because we did not know the reliability because it is new . but sir i want to compare it with respect to cost of generation. and other factors like reliabilty i will assume them after this cost comparison.
sir do you know is there any overall astimated cost for the M600 model and its components so that i could compare the per KW cost . please sir iff any help me regarding this . i will be thank full to you.
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@khawajaAdnan I do not have these data, even on their website https://makanipower.com/.
And there is no utility-scale AWE in operation for what I know. So a comparison with regular wind turbines is not possible. See also the AWE cons according to Mike Barnard on:
See a correction of my now old calculation with likely other mistakes on Makani's presentation in AWEC2017. I put again the supposed results:
from 33 mĀ² onboard turbines: 1/2 x 33 x 1.2 x 54Ā³ x 0.2 = a little more than 600 kW. The usual formula of wind energy by swept area is applied for this time;
now from the supposed 40 mĀ² of the wing, assuming a lift coefficient of 2, a L/D ratio of 12 (with tether drag): 40 x 1.2 x 2/27 x 2 x 10Ā³ x 12Ā² x 0.65 = about 660 kW. Derived Loydās formula is used.
Waiting for real measures!
@PierreB thank you soo much for your consideration sir. i will get back to you soon with some new questions. with most respect thank you soo much .
@Tom thank you soo much brother.
brother i have a question
is there any cost sheet(price sheet) for makani M600 model from which we can get an idea of the overall capital cost of the makani M600 model. is there any? Can you please guide me ?. I will be thank full to you brother . thank you again brother . i wil wait for your reply please reply must.
Well, in the absence of info, letās do what we have toā¦
Lets also say this is for a factory production model a year+ after the Norway tests March 2021
- Less than $1M = Installed price
- $1M< Installed Price <$2M
- $2M< Installed Price <$3M
- $3M< Installed Price <$5M
- Larger than $5M = Installed Price
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Though I feel the urge to vote, I will not because mye clueless vote will not add value. Though I did not pay most attention, i remember the first AWE book did some cost breakdowns. That is maybe a better starting point. The tether and turbines on the M600 are one of a kind, I think only Makani could place a correctish price tag on it.
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Such info isnāt usually disclosed and might not even be known by everyone in the company. I donāt have contact to any ex-Makani employees. They would also only have been able to estimate a production M600 which would be much cheaper than the prototype.
If I had to guess, Iād do some research on the cost of similar low production number large carbon fibre assemblies, custom buoyant systems, large custom generators etc. That takes quite a lot of work though and might not be successful.
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@Rodread
as the typical cost is $1.3 million per megawatt MW) of electricity-producing capacity of traditional wind turbine in which it includes base ,tower ,nacelle,generator and other equipments.
so for M600 which produces less than one mega watt its cost must be less than i million dollars.
is there any contact information of makani industry or email or anyting else? from where we could know the estimated cost of the model. thank you soo much for your concern sir
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@tallakt thank you for consideration of this question.
yes you are right sir that assumptions will not give us the accurate price but it will give us the estimated one.
sir can you give me that book of AWE where there is some breakdowns of cost.
i will be thankfull to you.
@Tom thank you.
yes you are right sir . but can you guide me from where i should start for the cost of the M600 model.?
i am really worried about it. i have to calculate the estimated cost of per KW production from the M600 model .
thank you for your concern . i will wait for your reply.
@PierreB
@tallakt
@Rodread
@Tom
@rschmehl
all of brothers and respected elders you are requested to please help me contacting Paula Echeverri
Paula has an account on linkedin
Chief Engineer at Makani
she is the only who can answer or give me the estimated price of the makani prototype.
you are requested to please help me discovering the cost of the m600 model it is very important for me because i have to use it in my thesis and submission date is almost close.
please brother help me i will be very thankfull to you.
@khawajaAdnan, the table 1 page 20 provides expected LCOE and some other numbers (weightā¦) for some AWES, comprising Makani M600 (no value for LCOE).
Now you could try to make a comparison with LCOE of current wind turbines on
And also on
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/320742362_Drag_power_kite_with_very_high_lift_coefficient see the page 14, table 1 and the comments about costs. This project is also a flygen like Makaniās.
.
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@PierreB thank you soo much for these documents helped me alot . thank you again respected sir.
sir in that table levilized cost of energy is missing .that you had told me already but weight is given that is a plus point.
thank u again.
We have just now released two important technical reports about Makaniās Wing7 and M600 to the public:
Jelle Wijnja: Aero-Elastic Analysis of a Large Airborne Wind Turbine. M.Sc. Thesis, Delft University of Technology, 27 Nov 2013.
http://resolver.tudelft.nl/uuid:0d778339-a97e-423a-b3a8-64ab7a64417f
Thomas van Alsenoy: Sensitivity Analysis of Airborne Wind Turbine Design Variables ā Using Trajectory Optimization. M.Sc. Thesis, Delft University of Technology, 22 May 2014.
http://resolver.tudelft.nl/uuid:5a4b8f8d-6cea-4e75-ba11-8da3fe4457cc
Jelle and Thomas were two MSc students of TU Delftās Faculty of Aerospace Engineering performing their graduation project with Makani in California. The two MSc theses detail the development status of the two prototypes, the smaller Wing7, with 4 onboard wind turbines, and the larger M600, with 8 onboard wind turbines, totaling 600 kW of electrical power.
Jelleās research was about the aeroelastic behavior of the M600, including a detailed description of structural, aerodynamic and control properties of this largest AWE prototype to date. Several aeroelastic modes are investigated, including flutter, distinguishing different flight regimes. The theoretical analysis was performed with a modified version of the popular simulation code ASWING and complemented by wind tunnel measurements at TU Delft. The research formed the basis for the paper Aeroelastic Analysis of a Large Airborne Wind Turbine that appeared in the Journal of Guidance, Control, and Dynamics.
Thomasā research was about the system design of Wing7. The research covers all system components, also the rotors used for hovering and energy harvesting. This prototype has also been described in Damon Vander Lindās book chapter Analysis and Flight Test Validation of High Performance Airborne Wind Turbines.
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Hi @rschmehl
Indeed these publications are useful and important.
But I think M600 power curves from real tests would interest many people involved in AWE. Are they available?
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