Sounds good. Sounds like Joe’s diagnosis is to have an above-average life expectancy, and years later he has been posting a lot of wannabe crackpot theories (trying to change word definitions in lieu of introducing new, viable configurations or methods). I guess nobody is supposed to pay any attention to them, or make any comment, just to humor you, right? Glad your call was just alarmist BS - one more of your “false alarms”. I’ve wished the best for Joe ever since he published “Low And Slow” and helped get hang-gliding off the ground.
One day it’s an upcoming AWE-powered concert-that-never-happens. The next it’s a project with the Moab Sky Monkeys that never takes place. Then it’s demanding everyone live up to Paul Gipe’s mention of actually measuring output - for everyone BUT you - you are a special case, where noting pull from a kite is sufficient.
Too bad most of what you say is simply not true, and you have not gotten anything working in all those years of empty talk.
Will the AWE hope be that far behind?
KiteX and Kitewinder turn their production toward HAWT.
Perhaps SkySails remains the last hope. By praising this company you praise Airborne Wind Europe.
It is good to have Joe around. Its true that we post all AWE ideas, including those that may be crackpot, just like the aviation bloopers you watch.
Its Pierre here redefining words, hoping to redefine “Aerotecture” to mean the TM, if that sort of thing actually bothers you. Not worth screaming over.
You and Pierre redefine “never” to mean “not yet”. That’s not smart.
Gipe was quite clear- its not enough to trust anyone’s claim to have measured anything. You seem to think such claims are essential. I agree with Gipe. I’ll never say my rough sense of power is “enough”, but must prove out formally. 2030 is my target.
SkySails is the best member AWEurope has had so far. But counting Makani, Ampyx and the other member failures, AWEurope is not so hot.
So far there are two types of wind energy crackpots. The type that start eliminating every defining feature of their “innovation” until they are left with a standard wind turbine, and the type that “just give up”, like McBlarney, thinking their effort must have been the best anyone could do, and since it failed, why keep trying?.
I guess there is one other type: the type who talks and talks forever, but builds and runs nothing of note, who never seems to learn anything nor progress in any way.
You are just so stupid. You keep quoting Paul as though he is where this “knowledge” of measurement came from or something. As though “measurement” is some new concept that someone just came across. As though telling the truth about output is a mysterious new idea.
No, telling the truth is a mysterious new concept for you. Actually producing power is an unreachable mythical abstract goal for you. Not everyone else. No need to project your faltering relationship with truth, output, or both, on everyone else. It is, at this point, pretty much relegated to you and you alone. Well, maybe Joe too…
I am long agreed with Gipe, based on his emails between us and Joe. He was very specific about the level of validation. We all cordially agreed. Its all covered in Old Forum archives.
You wonder…
“…where this “knowledge” of measurement came from”
I wonder who it could be. Have you an example of this? 
The only thing I wonder is who the hell you think you are in the world of wind energy - a know-nothing pest who thinks he is even the least bit relevant.
Who cares that you say you “agree” with the guy who openly despises crackpots like you anyway.
You go on and on as though you know anything or do anything, talking to me like you are here to teach me something. Meanwhile I am one of the very few wind turbine manufacturers with a model actually tested by Paul Gipe, run for a year in a windfarm site in Tehachapi. Most small turbines would not last a week there. The other two I can think of were the two small-wind market leaders at the time. Paul declared my early SuperTwin™ as “the most powerful turbine he has tested”.
And I don’t think you need to tell me anything about standards for small wind certification. The standards for small wind certification have my name on them, as one of the participants in the meetings where the standards were formulated.
What the hell is wrong with you anyway? All you seem to be is one hell of a lot of meaningless hot air. I’ve never seen anyone with such a case of exaggerated self-importance. You have absolutely NOTHING to do with wind energy and never have! Why don’t you go away and bother someone else with your endless nonsense?
Doug,
As you should know by now, I am proud to be associated with Texas #1 leadership in US conventional Wind Energy, an early friend of Michael Osborne, and a big fan of the American Wind Power Museum, and its collection of conventional and freak turbines, many kept in working order by Coy Harris, including a modern 2MW GE and a 200yr old Post Mill, and whose AWE collection I started and continue building. I respect Paul Gipe, and we have had good exchanges about AWE. I have toured Holland and gotten to work with those expert millers who maintain the centuries-old windmills.
My family has had everything from old Aeromotors to a Jacobs, to an eighty foot tower with a modern Primus on it. I am an avid sailor who lived and raced sailboats in Annapolis, where Payne took up when he filed his classic AWE patent 3987987. I also worked as a sailboat rigger in a boatyard there. I grew up in Skydiving and Aviation, and was in Florida when Jalbert’s parafoil first entered skydiving to become the paraglider. I am the leading sea-kayak kiter in the NW, as far as I know, specializing in winter conditions. I have hang glided, and many other extreme sports.
I am proud of my kite mentors, skills, and experience, knowing Wubbo Ockels, Dave Culp, Peter Lynn, Joe Hadsicki, Scott Skinner, Dave Lang and so on, and so on. I have corresponded and talked to Miles Loyd and Billy Roseler. I was there at KiteShip when Makani came along on Alameda Island. I was resident scholar at the World Kite Museum for seven years, the epicenter of the modern Kite World, where I found my wife and made a second home on the Lower Columbia, where Kitesurfing was born.
I gave the first AWE seminar at UTexas in 2009, and have tested extensively at Pickle Research Center, with UT AE, as kPower. kPower incubated at UT, partnered with SWRI, and got a seed grant from Austin Energy. kPower visited NREL NWTC by invitation of Fort Felker, who later led Makani. kFarm was epic. AWEfest will continue to develop from modest beginnings.
I have done hundreds of wind experiments, specializing in subscale AWE firsts. No knows better why the ST will not scale. Mothra showed that a >300m2 wing could be built and flown for less than 2k USD. Let Pierre imagine that Mothra was not intended to explore Aerotecture conceptually. It did so brilliantly.
Above all, Joe has been a great collaboration. We named “AWE” and first reported many novel ideas. We were key to HAWPcon09 being a success, including welcoming you. You flew an ST, and we flew a power kite. Joe and I were invited to write on kite science history and AWE for Physics World, including the emerging physics you decry and puzzle over.
I could go on, but this is enough “who” in “wind energy” to summarize for you here.
Thanks for asking.
Boys,
This pissing up the wall contest is all very impressive.
But not relevant to this forum.
All we care about is the AWES facts thanks.
Rod I suggest you open an unlisted free discussion topic for the numerous last messages and the possible following.
I’ve enabled slow mode for this topic for now, instead of closing it.
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Rod “All we care about is the AWES facts”
I have been contributing the most AWES facts above. Compare them with Pierre and Doug’s put together.
Moderation is not adding AWE facts. Windy pushing buttons can’t help. I hoped he was done here. Count me out of a public topic with Windy taking charge and Pierre and Doug making poorly referenced accusations.
Enforcing less posting is choosing more Censorship.
I’ve now changed the title to: Questions and complaints about moderation + unlisted, unmoderated, free discussion
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@Windy_Skies
Thank you so much for slowing the tirade of garbage posts which had started flooding this topic
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Memory is cheap.
Moderation trying to fight hidden “garbage posts” by an anonymous sock-puppet with TL4 powers is not adding anything valuable, just closing more doors.
Looks like the moderators have reached their limits in AWE and now want to spend their time worrying about what people write in an unlisted topic that nobody will ever see.
Why?
I think that they think that moderating a group “is” practicing “airborne wind energy”, and that it is “important” to control the content of even a closed room with no address and no door. The field of AWE is a subset of whacky wind energy ideas. Wind energy tends to draw nutcases as it is, let alone people who think they have a better way, and really let alone those pursuing a hypothetical airborne version.
It makes no logical sense to “monitor” a topic that nobody else will ever read. I look at it like this: real wind people are already at least half-nuts, just as a start. Wannabe wind people are pretty much full-blown nuts. Wannabe wind energy people who can’t make any power whatsoever despite 12 years of supposedly trying are far beyond nuts - they are in outer space.
Weird how I got e-mails about new messages supposedly here, drawing me in, but the new messages are not here. Well who cares anyway? Yes I just got back from skiing. Who would think the first ski resorts to open every year could be just outside Los Angeles?
Now that thread looks like a broken record, with vulgar protrusions here and there like “Boys,
This pissing up the wall contest is all very impressive”, or" garbage posts". Lately five participants have fed it, including myself. This is as much as the public part at its best. Maybe that slowing down will make it easier to return to the public part. Otherwise private e-mails can be used.
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I value Doug and Pierre’s contributions to AWE, and do not consider their posts to be “garbage”, but golden chances to explore and develop both sides of many issues.
Windy’s cowardly hypocritical moderation, like simultaneously labeling this topic “unmoderated” while moderating it to reduce complaints, with Rod’s encouragement, is most counterproductive.