Slow Chat III

Savonius-like turbines have been a starting point for some AWE pioneers like:

Hi Pierre: yeah, I think they raised something like $7 million over this boondoggle that was the poster-child of AWE for a few years!. :slight_smile:

AWE from Japan
OK here’s a supposed AWE project out of Japan. So far they’ve learned to fly a kite up to a certain height. Sounds like they placed a small wind turbine on their kite to power its control pod for longer than just the batteries. Seems to be associated with Toyota.

This link is for a PDF file of Toyota’s clean energy efforts. The link will take you directly to the AWE project that starts on page 70:

TTR_Vol69-2_E.pdf (global.toyota)

Latest News in Crackpot Wind Energy:

Anyone here remember Dave Santos’ breakthrough thinking of maybe a decade ago, which I had characterized as the “Look, it wiggles!” theory of wind energy?

# 90-year-old physicist finds new vibration mode, wind energy solution in bathroom
The new oscillation could help explain many phenomena but also help unlock potential of wind energy.

Updated: Jul 26, 2024 07:01 AM EST

This long-recognized, yet never implemented phenomenon is when you see a street sign wiggling in the wind and think “Hey, maybe THAT could be the next big thing for wind energy!”

In this case, it was a 90-year-old physicist, who dropped his hose-mounted showerhead - and it WIGGLED!!! which is now being compared to Archimedes’ “Eureka” moment in the bathtub! Except THIS is a Eureka Moment for Wind Energy!!!

Eureka 2.0: Old physicist discovers new oscillation mode in shower (interestingengineering.com)

I mean, it doesnt look half bad; many sites dont get more than 7 mph very often, and it has a backup solar panel.

Im sure there are many remote cabins that could make some use of this device

Hi Guys! Sorry, I forgot to include that logo for the future-failed Japanese wind turbine project in Hawaii:


See the pattern yet?

A post was merged into an existing topic: Hydrogen Story Falling Apart

The Paris 2024 Olympic Games revealed the cauldron that rises under the tethered balloon.
The Olympic flame is in reality simulated by water misters on a multitude of LED bulbs.

The tethered balloon was imagined by Aerophile (following links 1 and 3 in French):

US approves game-changer tech that cuts wind turbine installation cost by 50% (msn.com)

OK you see it:
This is a GAMECHANGER!
The kiss of death for any wind energy concept.
The article doesn’t go into any details,
so I checked their website.
No details there either.
They claim to have several ideas… :slight_smile:

CLS Wind presentation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XK7hh1sT7Ow

A podcast segment about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UO31cWkIhkM Installation and maintenance is important and expensive, especially offshore and with bigger turbines, so it makes sense to look for alternatives, according to these observers.

Didn’t I post on CLS Wind recently?
Here’s the article I saw:
US approves game-changer tech that cuts wind turbine installation cost by 50% (msn.com)

Keyword:
“Gamechanger”
When you see that word used in any article on a supposed wind energy breakthrough, it’s a big indicator that the story will turn out to be one of false hope, rather than a glimpse of what’s coming soon. Also, the headline is misleading, since the U.S. government did not approve of this, but rather a trade group base here issued some watered-down “approval” of CLS trying to do something. There does not appear to be any actual “solution” to “approve”.

While I have always, similarly to CLS, wondered why we need a crane when we already have a tower - (Why can’t we just use the tower to raise the turbine?)
I always assumed others had also thought of this, and that there might be reasons, such as tower buckling - maybe the tower and nacelle need to be connected before there is a total reliable structure.
Also, at such a large scale, could it be that off-center loads would not work out so well with the tubular tower’s structure? I mean, we’ve seen a tower buckle just due to some tornadoes in the area, not even hitting it.

I still can’t find many details of exactly how CLS plans to replace the cranes.
It sounds like they have many half-baked “ideas” and some limited renderings, but few, if any, actual working solutions. “Looking for partners”. etc. Seems to me they have more of just a goal, than any actual solution.

Seems to me such an effort might be more easily proven in actual practice at a smaller scale, then a determination could be made as to whether such a system might still work at a larger scale.

I know here, with our 1/2 ton, 22-foot diameter,10 kW turbine on a 120-foot tower, we call in a crane to swap out turbines or even just to remove the blades for leading edge repair. There are ways to remove the blades that don’t require a crane, but most service people will tilt down the whole thing with a crane just to service the blades.

Anyway, going into the future, just remember: “gamechanger!”
Remember the real meaning of this word, which is “You can safely ignore this article”. :slight_smile:

I wonder whether a modular tower that works like a jack (not on the description above) might be a bad or a very bad idea for lifting the rotor and nacelle.

What you read above is a typical reaction of someone not familiar with the realities of wind energy or living off-grid.

In the Dr. Suess childrens’ book on the basics of wind energy, rule 1 is “If you don’t have a good wind resource, forget about wind energy at your location”. Beginners can seldom comprehend such a basic fact, as simple as it is!

If your site can’t benefit from a good turbine, substituting a less-efficient design won’t help. A less-efficient design that costs more and uses more material will only make things that much worse.

Any regular turbine can be made to respond to low winds, but over time, the “sweet spot” or “sweet range” has been well-established.

The Savonius design from Japan being promoted by the article is basically just a very expensive, yet limited and inappropriately tall, mount for a too-small-to-matter solar panel.

The same amount of material could be used for a rack supporting 5-10 kW of solar panels which are now as low as 40 cents/Watt in cost, or lower if bought in bargain situations.

I have a friend who lives in a cabin on a hill, surrounded by windfarms, in Tehachapi. He was Head of Anemometry at GE Wind years ago. Way back then, even when solar was expensive, he told me “Doug, wind sucks!” He had a small wind turbine onsite, and still does, but was already going over to solar, because it just sits there making power, whereas wind systems have endless problems.

Nowadays, he buys new or used solar panels in large lots, sometimes selling off a few, and recently told me he isn’t even mounting them anymore, just leaving them out laying on the ground, because they are so cheap he doesn’t even care if they face the sun, as long as they are connected, he and his wife have ample power for their remote cabin.

I have the same thing, except with conputers/software :slight_smile:

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Are you saying you also live off-grid in a cabin on a hill, with a wind turbine, solar panels, software, and computers, or are you saying you can model such a remote cabin situation in software, or what?

I meant to say I try not to have computers everywhere and rely on software, though I am a software engineer myself.

For example I would not want to have home automation. Also I use Apple products because I fond they are designed for people who dont know how to fix computers and dont seem to require as much attention. And so on. Get rid of computer issues where you can.

What do you mean by “I have the same thing”?

Air mattresses have been made in such a general way for what, 100 years?
Interesting to see what OSU is doing with flying kites! :slight_smile:

Air mattresses and aerodynamic profiles are different things. Maybe you’ll understand it in 100 years.