AN INVITATION TO Open-AWE IP POOL

Just to clarify: A Voltage is just a potential. Establishing a voltage is not the same as generating power. You can put a voltmeter on a car battery and see ~13 Volts, but there is no power being used, just Voltage measured. Electric Circuits are analogous to hydraulic circuits (plumbing) Voltage is like water pressure. Current is like volumetric flowrate. Hydraulic power is pressure times Volumetric Flowrate. Without a flowrate, there is only pressure, which could be a pressurized tank just sitting there doing nothing. You could measure the pressure all day long, without making any power whatsoever. But at least showing one meter with something on it is a start! If someone said they saw 12 Volts, could that be just a measurement of the charge state of a battery that someone is hoping to charge into? :slight_smile:

This picture on it’s own can’t hope to tell the whole story which it is part of.
I think this was from a video I saw.
If I’m right
 The blue and white arm part was reciprocally pivoting from the wooden base. Think the black part was a wee motor/gen. The line pumping motion was from some unstable kite configuration. Can only have been making ~30W.
That’s already a load more info than the tiny picture from the tiny video relayed.
None of the test data from those experiments was (as far as I remember) presented cohesively, cleanly, supported with design diagrams, operating principle, descriptions, 


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@dougselsam
In order to show power output, you need either a dedicated power meter per se, or two meters showing Voltage on one and current (Amps) on the other. Multiplying the readouts on the two meters together gives power in Volts.

There you have ‘Power measurement by voltage and amps, on two meters’. 16V is seen on one screen, but sky reflection makes the amp number unclear in this ‘video grab’. What is proven here is that Jalbert Aerology Laboratory - JAL / David Santos Gorenna-Guinn does measure power, and we further advocate Fraunhofer (Germany) doing the independent certified third-party comparative measurement, as indeed Paul Gipe would have us do, beyond current ‘open fly-off’ that allows everyone to claim what he wills.

Typical from this particular source. 2-second videos showing something wiggling, or a picture said to show something that it does not show.

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For clarity:
Voltage Reading
Others on this forum already confirmed 16V at least.
Will 16V fail to charge a 12V equipment or battery?
You indeed make the forum go round in circles, if anyone does!

Thanks @Rodread.
The point of power generation by a ‘rag and string’ kite is proven by your fair confirmation of indeed seeing the video from which the glimpse came.
For scaling to-date and further scalabilty, I would not help David Santos evade the forum ban. I will rather plead that he be reinstated on merit to further elucidate.
Thanks indeed.

As usual, the person making unsubstantiated claims throws around accusations in lieu of providing evidence. First of all, the image is so small and blurry it is impossible to see if it is even set to measure Voltage, and the numerals are not really legible, and do not discern a decimal place or anything. We’re just supposed to accept a subjective description of what one meter of two MAY be showing. What is this, a project for an elementary school audience? If you say you are showing power on meters, show power on meters, not some excuse. And show the whole apparatus working so people can even see what the meters are connected to. This source has a poor track record of “blink-and-you-missed-it” videos and excuses why they should not be held to the same simple, common-sense standards everyone else recognizes.

What I was referring to, specifically, is your claim that the screen grab you provided (conveniently) did not show current (Amps). Then why not do a better screen grab? I do not know whether you are (daveS is) (supposedly) charging a 12-Volt battery or not, and I would assume if your meter shows 16 Volts, it is probably not attached to a battery at all, actually. That looks like a peak open-Voltage reading to me. If you had a powerful turbine, yes, you could push the Voltage up to 16 Volts while attached to a battery, and if you ran it like that for any length of time you would have exploding batteries. If you check out my videos, the ceiling of that test vehicle is in tatters from battery acid splashed up by exploding batteries. As I said elsewhere, this is all just typical wind-newbie squirming when asked to show output, not really much of a discussion, just the same old struggle with facing reality in any way.

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Even better a time plot showing accurate wing speed at the kite and the electric power fed to the «grid» or a dummy power sink.

Even better than that a power curve kind of plot

:slight_smile:

Indeed I recognize his style of writing and repetitive talking points. Saying he “does not have representation here” or cannot defend himself in some way is just more dishonesty. It looks to me like he is posting through John. Just sayin’
 :slight_smile:

All very desirable, I’d settle for anything that actually showed power output over time, such as a video that showed what is operating and how, and what it is connected to, where hopefully you could get a decent look at both meters without excessive glare etc, blocking the view. Not asking for a miracle, just something halfway solid, or at least intermittently readable.

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The proofs of electrical generation would be on the photos you provided, and on the videos below:

From that we could expect reaching MW scale for JAL’s Advanced Kite Networks.

Is this what you mean John?

Let me put it like this. I dreaded the DS vs DS flame wars that were drowning this and the previous forums. But there is a thing to take note of; @dougselsam is pretty accurate and spot on in most of his feedback. It may be harsh but it’s mostly accurate. And its mostly relating to the subject in question not personal.

We would not be so hard with most new users of the forum. But it is clear that we are getting more of the same that we got before with you @AweEnthusiast. Because of that, we must take earlier history into account.

This JAL project has a history of exaggerated claims that can’t be supported by physics of this world or just straight results.

Showing power is not very difficult in itself. But, the power must be made to be cheap if eventually the windmill should be competitive. So if you provide voltage without current or vice versa, you are not making progress in becoming more believeable.

Right now we are trying to see is this is ignorance on your behalf, on our behalf (due to not receiving sound explanations) or some kind of con man/scam scheme. You may see why it is of some interest to us who would like to see AWE succeed to determine which og these we are dealing with.

Also note that us askin for detailed information is us giving you a chance to convince us that our ignorance is the problem.

I would love it if JAL succeed. I wish your project best of luck. But I do not want this thing to linger on the forum unchallenged if we are not the problem


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I must make an admitment; I learnt out of band that I claimed to not be connected to AWEurope. This is of course false. The leader of AWEurope of course is heavily involved in Kitemill and I know him well. And Kitemill itself is connected to the European Union by Norway being member of the EEC. Which pretty much puts myself and Usula von der Leyen pretty much close as two pieces of rice. Now the question is how @Rodread fits into all of this. The truth is I fear he became a victim of Brexit an no longer holds much sway with Ursula, nor the King of Norway.

With regard to the request of connecting JAL to AWEurope, this would not be in «our family’s» best interest. Better to protect the hand that feeds you from other hungry siblings.

Anyways, I was not under the impression that JAL was in any way european, and subject to the option of receiving EU research funds.

Its all connected

:joy:

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Thanks, @PierreB
Precisely. I hope these suffice.

I just love you tallakt. :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:Sincerely.
The point really is “It’s all connected”. Climate Change is a global concern.
IEA has the United States Of America as a member. JAL is in the USA if not in EU yet. IEA Wind Task48 is under AirborneWind Europe and supports this forum if I am not mistaken.
Truth is every AWE firm collapse is a colossal loss to the nascent global AWE efforts and the worst hit folks would be those early folks having over ‘14 years’ labor, yet bootstrapping mostly on their own equity.
That is why in my opinion, we must tolerate all, “warts and all”.

Some “projects” ARE the warts.

John, for what hope is this enough? Who do you think you can convince with these videos and the MW scale AKN conversion system such as it is (or is not) described?

@tallakt you may yet have to look after my interests being as how the legitimacy of the sovereign dowry gift of the Kings lands of Shetland to Scotland from the King of Norway in 1467 (or thereabouts give or take 200 years) has been hotly contested ever since.

:point_right::moneybag::credit_card::eu::scotland:

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Wow. I can only say - nice save!

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JAL extrapolates based on the total area of the kites, giving figures that seem likely, but does not take into account the conversion system concerns and issues.

After all we can also conceive a GW AWE system with proven conversion system: install 5000 000 Kiwee units (200 W per unit at 10 m/s wind speed). I think there would be enough room in Antarctica.

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