Makani Archives

The Makani flight data logs are also available as a searchable dataset on the Google cloud platform.
This works with their bigquery cloud api.
Maybe you could use this for interfacing AWES history tourist site visitor experiences

The main folder in this bucket is labeled ‘merged logs’ and contains all telemetry from the kite and base station collected during crosswind flights of the M600 kite between 2016 and 2019. The other buckets contain build files and databases that are used to build and run the Makani flight simulator, which can be accessed at github.com/google/makani .

This public dataset is hosted in Google Cloud Storage and available free to use. Use this quick start guide to learn how to access public datasets on Google Cloud Storage.

It seems that the Alphabet X Project Loon may now be going the same way as Makani
https://blog.x.company/loons-final-flight-e9d699123a96

When we unveiled Loon in June 2013, we meant everything in its name. It was a way-out-there and risky venture. Not just fragile-balloons-on-the-edge-of-space risky, but risky at the core of the question it was asking. Could this be the radical idea that might finally bring abundant, affordable Internet access, not just to the next billion, but to the last billion? To the last unconnected communities and those least able to pay?

Sadly, despite the team’s groundbreaking technical achievements over the last 9 years — doing many things previously thought impossible, like precisely navigating balloons in the stratosphere, creating a mesh network in the sky, or developing balloons that can withstand the harsh conditions of the stratosphere for more than a year — the road to commercial viability has proven much longer and riskier than hoped. So we’ve made the difficult decision to close down Loon. In the coming months, we’ll begin winding down operations and it will no longer be an Other Bet within Alphabet.

Internet access looks to be the main purpose, AWE for electricity production being even not mentioned, in spite of Makani’s project. Should the consequence be the mutation of AWES towards internet access systems?

One common symptom of “The Professor Crackpot Syndrome” is thinking “We have to make it REALLY BIG or nobody will take it theriouthly (seriously)!”
Why not get something working well at a workable scale, instead of something failing at Jumbo size?

Thinking “REALLY BIG” is essential, even if small prototypes must be able to function. You have to stop believing that an AWES is made to heat your house. The length of the ropes, the space occupied, make it necessary to think big. After, all is in the schedule of the steps from small to big.

Makani was successful by testing smaller wings. So increasing the dimensions was the normal step. 600 kW is still small in regard to current wind turbines.

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Makani faced a dilemma.

  1. Limit oneself perpetually to small scales under penalty of never being able to sell a system of a few kW occupying an enormous space (always this problem of density, even more significant for AWES).

  2. Go to the size above (600 kW, it is still well below the current HAWT) at the cost of unsolvable problems.

Maybe they just didn’t know what they were doing, like most wannabe wind energy innovators. I’ll say again, I don’t think their failure negates the entire category of flygen AWES, although you don’t see me lifting my generators into the sky. Still, they explored one small corner of the conceptual design space.

I think there is a psychological aspect to Google being involved. We’re all so used to turning to Google for the answers to every question, it’s hard to believe they could get something wrong. Instead the learned instinct is to assume they did the best anyone could do in the flygen space and so it must be a dead end.

BTW a valid wind energy concept is usually pretty scalable, so if they had a good, well-functioning system at a smaller scale, there would be some market for it. Maybe there are other possibilities they didn’t see or pursue.

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Even Dr. Fort Felker, Director of the NREL before being CEO of Makani?

Pierre: As someone who has friends who work at this and other “national labs”, it is a relatively low-paying job compared to private-sector positions, that attracts people who are generally competent or trainable, but not necessarily inspired.

The positions are “go along to get along” oriented, not so much cutting-edge do-or-die efforts. A position at these labs is seen as “safe” - a “steady job” where if you just don’t do anything too wrong you have job security, kind of like becoming a cop or a teacher.

I do not know much about Fort Felker, specifically, but my impression over the years regarding NREL has been that nobody there ever designed or built a real wind turbine. Nobody in their “small-wind” department, for example, started out designing or building small turbines, then gave it up for a government position. They can test what other people build, but do not try much new stuff themselves.

At first I was perplexed that NREL was not at the cutting edge of wind energy research and development, but I learned they were more of a clearinghouse for talent and inspiration, than a source of it. They have a valid role, but this is a free-market economy, and the real innovations usually emanate from the private sector. Nevertheless they are nice people and they do know their stuff for sure.

I had never heard of Fort Felker before he showed up at Stanford for the second(?) world AWE conference in, what 2010(?). Everybody was like “Whoa, look who is noticing us!” Of course the downside was they probably realized they could not go on without reliable significant power production forever - now they were in the big leagues, to some extent, or at least have to acknowledge reality over sheer fantasy.

But likely as not, Fort’s real talent was administrating, strategizing in a business sense, and just keeping things running at a high level, more than innovating specifically. A talented bureaucrat more than a radical innovator.

When Makani hired him away from NREL I was kind of concerned that they were screwing up NREL for no good reason, taking a talented guy away from a position where he was doing some good, to a position where he would probably be wasting his time. Then again, I never heard anyone concerned because he left. I guess he may have been easily and quickly replaced, but who knows?.

Regarding him specifically, I’m not sure whether Makani utilized whatever talents he had to the best effect, since they seemed to already have their direction laid out. I imagined him telling them they didn’t know what they were doing and to give it up, actually. But he was probably so entrenched in the status quo that he was unlikely to really think outside that box. I think he went on to a higher “management” position at Google. Haven’t heard about anything specific he had accomplished in wind energy before or since, although just because I am not aware of it does not mean it didn’t happen.

My best friend since I was a little kid recently left NIST for a job with a private company, after a couple of decades at the government lab. He is much happier, and being paid much better. Originally glad to have such a “solid” job, he eventually yearned for more excitement and better pay.

Here you can learn a bit more about him. He has done those things.

Wow thanks for that Windy_Skies. Sounds like he was part of the birth of modern wind energy, from what I read there.
Yes the Kenetech turbines were some of the first windfarm machines, but they all quickly broke down and had to be replaced. The problem was the early tax incentives were based on installed nameplate capacity, incentivizing companies to just put out junk that would qualify for the tax credits, rather than reliable machines.

I just googled “Paul Gipe Kenetech” and here is the first link that came up:

After the Kenetech disaster the incentives switched to production tax credits, where windfarms got a tax credit for actual electricity produced, That worked better - machines got more reliable. Reliability is key to economical wind energy.

Winglets have never caught on in wind energy. I think it may have to do with centrifugal force loading - the blades don’t need shizzle like that on the blade tips screwing things up - gotta keep it simple.

The reason winglets are used on airplanes is it is an alternative to making the wings longer, because airplanes need to limit their wingspan for taxiing and ground-handling in congested airports.

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That’s a nice read.

Dr. Fort Felker and Makani:

Leading the Makani team at X, The Moonshot Factory, and then as an Alphabet company, was the highlight of my career.

I was never all that impressed with Astro, and it’s boring to hear them trying to put a happy face on their failure. Fort: “The pinnacle of his career” - Sheesh! As I often say, get something running WELL at a small scale, THEN worry about building a big one. Obviously, powering a single house comes before powering hundreds of houses, but that’s not what happens when people are given too much money. Or if they are so inexperienced they can’t fathom the fact of a single home powered by the wind. I think the real problem is, powering a single home is obviously achievable, so is they stated that as their goal, people would expect results rather than requests for more funding. An actual achievable goal would stop all their fun more quickly if not quickly enabled. So, better to talk of “hundreds of homes” then people can say “Well, what did you expect - they were trying something really hard!” OK, why exactly? Oh, so they could drag out their failure for a decade or more of continued funding…

I remember being temporarily impressed with Makani’s “story”, thinking they were the AWE leader, until I saw that video of the larger version laboriously trying to fly its pattern, at which point I suddenly saw the writing on the wall. But the nice thing is they eventually shared what went wrong, so people could learn from their mistakes. I was impressed that Fort shared how the aircraft turned out to be too flimsy for the strong and turbulent winds in Hawaii, for example, or the attempt at a single, solid, pultruded carbon-fiber tether, which broke right away, so they switched to a multi-strand version. These are the kind of details that are helpful for others to learn from. :slight_smile:

The other day, after hearing Fort Felker relate how Makani was unpleasantly surprised by the amount of turbulence in Hawaii, I noticed how turbulent the wind here was. We were having the typical springtime high winds the Cajon Pass is known for, and our 10 kW Bergey turbine was making a lot of noise due to being battered by turbulence. Just as the ocean is sometimes calm and flat, and other times is rough and unpredictable, the air can have a completely different character on different days. Our Bergey was making between 7 and 9 kW, I’m sure hitting or exceeding 10 kW at times, but the sound of the challenging turbulence could not be ignored. The rotor was fighting a battle, successfully, but it sounded very different than a smooth-air day.

The other thing that Fort said that hit home for me was the number of unpromising ideas he had been exposed to as head of the National Wind Technology Center. I’ve tried to expose the AWE people on these forums to the reality of “Professor Crackpot” and all the know-nothing “idiots” who endlessly plague the conversation in wind energy - always have, and always will, in the face of someone endlessly trying to convince us all that soft “power-kites” are “the answer” for wind energy, while hard blades are the wrong choice, that anyone with a patent is a ”patent troll”, calling patents themselves “blocking patents”, never distinguishing whether ALL patents are “blocking” or just the ones concerning kites for energy(???)

(The legal requirement for a patent is that it be “enabling”.)

Meanwhile, Fort Felker, as former head of the NWTC, should not have been surprised at the turbulence in Hawaii. Turbulent air is just part of wind energy, and can happen anywhere! Who knows, was there excessive turbulence at their chosen Hawaii location all the time, or was it just a turbulent day that day?

The other concerning thing was how Fort distinguished the Makani concept from all the dumb ideas he had also been exp[osed to. He cited the origin of Makani being kitesurfers “feeling the power” in the kites. Kind of reminds me of the old idea of hearing a door slam in the wind, realizing there must be a lot of power there, and thereby designing a drag-based Savonius turbine by placing a bunch of doors on a merry-go-round. House doors or car doors? I’d pick car doors, because it reminds me of the old joke about why someone has a car door in their living room next to their easy-chair.
“Why do you have a car door in your livinmg room?”
“So I can roll down the window when it gets hot!”

This is the level of logic we’re talking about.

So anyway, my point here is that the type of helpful and instructive information that Fort Felker and Makani have been sharing is exactly the kind of info I’ve been asking about, regarding the main thrust of AWE “research” which has been kite-reeling. Thank You Fort for sharing some actual information with the rest of us, who are always curious and thirsty for good information!

Out of all the (predictably) failed kite-reeling companies, why don’t we hear similar stories of what the problems were that held back progress to the point of nothing running in a daily basis in the whole world, after all that hype, all those promises?