I guess there are at least two whole points.
The first paragraph after the quotes of the comment you replied to was in reference to Pierre’s comment, the second to yours.
The topic is to explore further drawbacks and benefits of lattice towers and guying. I started it for my benefit.
I wonder when you geniuses might stumble across the topic of lattice towers (which are no longer used for utility-scale wind turbines), in your endless quest to analyze and re-invent something you don’t really know anything about. How could this discussion take place without acknowledging the proven concept of lattice towers?
An extract from Don Quixote by Miguel de Cervantes, published in 1605 and 1615:
"At that moment they discovered thirty or forty windmills on the plain, and as soon as Don Quixote saw them he said to his squire:
- Fortune conducts our affairs better than even our desire could. Look, friend Sancho; there are at least thirty huge giants before us, whom I intend to fight and take the lives of all of them. With their spoils we shall begin to enrich ourselves; for it is a good war, and it is a great service to God to wipe such evil spawn from the face of the earth.
- What giants?" asked Sancho Panza.
- The ones you see over there," replied his master, "with their great arms, for some of them are almost two leagues long.
- Take heed, then," replied Sancho, "what we see over there are not giants, but windmills, and what appear to be their arms are their wings, which, turned by the wind, in turn turn turn the millstone.
- They are giants, I tell you, and if you are afraid, get out of the way and go and pray while I fight them an unequal and terrible battle.
As he spoke, he spurred on his horse Rossinante, heedless of the advice of his squire Sancho, who shouted at him that it was windmills and not giants that he was about to attack."
Hi Doug: Are you the new Don Quixote, fighting against so-called “wind-idiots” instead of windmills?
Well Pierre, you mentioned a term I’ve used “real wind people”, as though I was somehow wrong even using such a term. Please let me clarify.
First, one thing I noticed about the wannabe wind energy contingent of AWE people was the dishonesty. They seem to always want to promote their fantasies as fact, banking on the knowledge that a certain percentage of people will believe them. And a lot of people have taken their statements of future progress at face value over the years, and I’m sure most have been disappointed by now. I remember, during what is now already 4 or 5 years ago, when, in response to my asking if there was actually anything going on in the field of AWE, I was scolded by some know-it-all / know-nothing AWE true-believer, something like “Well Doug, I hate to tell you, but if you haven’t heard, Skysails just opened a factory(!) and is shipping AWE systems around the world!”
I was like, “Oh, and like all the previous press-releases, you believe that, right?”
REAL WIND PEOPLE refers to people really designing, producing, or operating WORKING wind energy systems, that produce significant amounts of energy, reliably, and economically. It includes people with a demonstrated mastery of working wind energy technology, people who power their homes with wind energy, people who run windfarms, people who make turbines that people actually use, that are operating on a regular basis, making useful amounts of power at an affordable cost.
What the term does NOT include are people JUST SAYING they WILL power X number of homes at remote location Y by date Z, who are unable to follow through on that promise, due to their lack of understanding or mastery of wind energy technology capable of fulfilling such promises.
In other words, REAL WIND PEOPLE does NOT include people whose only contribution to wind energy is false talk of future supposed accomplishments that never happen, people who don’t grasp how to make wind energy work, and so on.
Not that complicated.
And to me, REAL WIND PEOPLE does not include “researchers” chasing false or disproven dreams, NOT creating wind energy systems that really work well enough, even just to operate on a daily basis.
You’ve got to make power on a regular basis, or have a compelling, useful, wind energy solution, NOT just a bunch of EMPTY TALK.
If you have a new design or new device, it has to work well, and not break down right away. That means that manufacturers of sub-par wind turbines that instantly break down and/or come nowhere near their stated output, as seen on Ebay etc. are also NOT REAL WIND PEOPLE. They are FAKES and their products are fakery sold with lies.
And your unimaginative and meaningless reference to “Don Quixote” is both off-target and a typical attempt at distraction to change the conversation, to try and avoid talking about just why, after so many years, you have nothing running, nothing compelling, just a lot of talk.
I build real, working wind turbines. I don’t swing a sword at them. I know a REAL WIND person who made a rotor from samurai swords that went supersonic unloaded though. He has manufactured and sold many thousands of real wind turbines.
What all this “Don Quixote” etc. talk really amounts to is just one more desperate last gasp from people within nothing to offer wind energy, just pretending to be relevant, if only they can talk talk talk enough.
Before the internet, nobody would have ever heard anything about them. Today, they think they know everything while unable to do much of anything. 
Doug: Aside from your usual blabbering, some AWE suggestions?
As long as someone interprets an exhausted repetition of the most basic facts as “blabbering”, there is no hope for that person and they should move on. When someone purporting to be some sort of expert in wind energy wants to spend their time challenging people over simple terms like “real wind people”, they are wasting their time, and everyone else’s time, pretending that arguing about the terms used for people who do and do not make reliable, affordable power from the wind, will result in their mastery of the art. My suggestion would be to shut up and do something… if you have anything worth doing…
Some loose ideas. Maybe some of these could have an outlet to AWE.
SkySails at 12: 51, just after something flying.
More blah blah blah.
SkySails is now the leader in electricity generation AWE, with an average of 92 kW, wind speed of 12 m/s (figure 15).
But other interesting ideas in the video could lead to some elements in AWE.
Be a little patient, the one we know might be back soon. You might be able to get back to your endless DS/DS during years, unless it was BS/BS.
Yeah, that waving sidewalk in the water reminded me of him and his flapping flag for power extraction nonsense. Half of that DS/DS was nonsense, posing against the simple facts offered by the other half.
Not sure where the question comes from, when it comes to “idiots”, now that you bring that up. If I recall, I think he once caused an LED to briefly illuminate, in 15 years of bragging nonsense.
With 268k views, this has 1.1k upvotes and 44 comments. I’m guessing they delete comments asking about the sources, most comments are from a month or less ago, and there would be much more downvotes than upvotes, if that still existed on YouTube. Some cool ideas though, would have been nice if they’d attribute them so we could find them.
Yes it seems like I’ve been hearing these same impressive numbers for about ten years now.
And the same brief video clips for what, maybe at least 5 years.
So I guess it hasn’t led anywhere?
Merry Christmas and a Successful New Year 2024.
Happy Christmas everyone
Here’s something to make you all smile
Wind energy has been fixed again yay
It was a flappy cloth we needed all along
Hooray 
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!
“This new bladeless fan is the future of wind turbines”, “vibrational power”, “zero-emission”: it looks like it’s to provoke @dougselsam. 
Imagine, starting an entire “company”, just to provoke me! I feel honored. Going to all that trouble and expense, just to give me something to chew on! How considerate. Guys, I think at this point, we can all see that there really IS a “Professor Crackpot Syndrome” in wind energy, and this is a perfect example.
A “bladeless” “turbine” with 12 blades per unit, that do not rotate. (This means it is neither “bladeless”, nor “a turbine”.)
“Professor Crackpot”, as humorous character, reliably and repeatedly exhibits predictable, known symptoms, one of which is using a wind tunnel to “prove” their design. God forbid they would just test it in the wind and show you a power curve, right? That would be too cheap and easy!
So these guys are excited about a wind energy device maybe 4 feet in diameter, that’s about what, 12% efficient, in a wind tunnel forcing air through it? It has a heavy steel frame, heavy triangular composite(?) structure, a useless depth so the blades, which are not efficient, are instead redundant, but for no good reason?
Meanwhile they could make a 4-foot regular turbine with at least double that efficiency, probably more, using a fraction of the material, and at much lower cost to produce, ship, install, AND it would last far longer. What could they be thinking? Seems like they must not really be thinking at all. to “real wind people”, it literally looks like a version of mental illness.
I remember in 2010 meeting the two founders of Kleiner Perkins (leading clean energy V.C company) with a “new” ducted turbine company, and trying to explain to them that a propeller-type rotor is the most effective way to get power out of a given area, requiring the least material to do so, and that their composite ducts use more material than a larger rotor, making it a bad choice. They literally seemed unable to comprehend what I was saying.
They protested that their duct had some swirl contours on the inside that would make it better. I told them that such a marginal step could make no difference - it was destined to fail. I also made the mistake of telling them that New Zealand had wasted something like $25 million on a floating, ducted turbine that went nowhere. They ended up selling their destined-to-fail company to whom? New Zealand. I inadvertently told them where a sucker was to buy their mistake. I thought they didn’t know what they were doing, but I think they knew what they were doing: ripping people off. They didn’t care if it worked or not. They only cared if they could make a profit and move on.
So anyway, this Katrick company is promoting oscillating working surfaces, which translates to “less efficient” and “quickly wearing out”, costing more, weighing more, no ability to even aim, “building-mounted” which, as tempting as it seems, turns out to be another “Professor Crackpot” symptom…
How silly can grown adults be? The enclosure would seem to have no useful function, yet uses far more material than the working elements!
How could people with that little knowledge of wind energy pretend to be developing a new wind energy technology? Even you guys can see how dumb this idea is… right? This is a lesson: “The Professor Crackpot Syndrome” is real. And it’s everywhere! Ignore it at your own peril!
