Slow Chat

Hello Jason - every wind turbine blades and aircraft wing uses what has been called “The Coanda Effect” (named after Africa’s largest and deadliest snake, the Coanda) since that is the effect that keeps the flow attached to the vacuum side of the blades, providing the vacuum that pulls the blades along.

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Doug, Note here I classify the Honeywell as I do the ST, as a “fringe oddball turbine”, never as “a good turbine.” You make false quotes up to suit biases, lacking accurate recollection of what was written and publicly archived, then make excuses for never being able to produce the original quote, like all the “idiots” easily do.

The Great Coy Harris is now retired, and new Windmill Curators carry on in his tradition as a “real wind person”. Surely no one before Coy worked on so many kinds of turbines, lovingly restoring most of them, from a centuries-old wooden windmill to a modern large-scale HAWT, and everything in-between. Coy and I are related via DC Harris, a great uncle of mine. We are pioneer stock of Texoma, the Comancheria, true “children of the wind”.

This place is a “home” to me. Wind folks of all kinds are “family”.


Dave: I’m only going to read the first paragraph of your post. If there was ONE THING firmly established in the old forum, it was the FACT that you continually issue false statements. The issue, with Joe being the sole arbiter of all things, became not a question of your falsehoods, which was firmly established, but a technicality of whether you were intentionally lying, or simply mistaken. That became Joe’s feeble fallback position regarding your posts. It is a common problem with people who continually issue false statements, such as politicians: The question is often “Are they intentionally lying or are they just that stupid”? Joe would take the position that we could not PROVE you INTENTIONALLY made false statements.
Now you, after recently accusing me of “ad hominem attacks”, (like a little kid trying to “tell the teacher”, hoping you can “out-technicality” me) you issue yet another false statement denying a previous false statement. Now it is a lie about a previous mistaken statement. But we can;t “prove” your memory is intact, right? So we can;t truly say with 100% certainty that you are lying - you might just be mistaken.
I will say this, because I REMEMBER YOUR EXACT WORDS, WHICH I ACTUALLY QUOTED: You explicitly stated that the Honeywell debacle was “a good turbine”. Supposedly as told to you by Coy Harris. The reason? You don’t know anything about wind turbine design, and so you fell for it like other know-nothing idiots, which includes the “authors” who regurgitate laying press-releases as “articles”…
Now we’re onto another subject, WHETHER YOU EVER SAID IT WAS A GOOD TURBINE. YES YOU DID. Your exact words included “is a good turbine”, describing the Honeywell turbine. But in your passage, above, you just made an EXACT, 100% FALSE STATEMENT. Is it “a lie”? I don’t even care. It makes no difference. It is just one more false statement, denying EXACTLY WHAT YOU SAID, WORD FOR WORD. Personally, I do not think it is productive wasting any more time responding to your incessant nonsense. Why don’t you do what you said you would do half a year ago and show us how much power your collection of cloth triangles can make pulling trains up the sides of an open pit? When will we witness this latest absurdity? (As though a train is just some cheap item anyone could easily add to a wind energy system). Note to the rest of the class: Please do not take my lack of responding to Santos, in the future, as an indication that I have no response. It is not that I HAVE NO response, it is that there is NO POINT WASTING MY TIME OR ATTENTION TO ANSWER more false statements. It is more sensible to simply ignore them. My time and attention are valuable, not to be squandered any more than they already have been responding to nonsense and lies from the same old source. Have a McDay. :slight_smile:

OK I’m thinking “I could reliably fly kites when I was 8 years old” -
or how about
“Anyone could reliably fly a kite - you could always rely on them getting stuck in a tree and then someone’s dad would have to untangle the string”

I’m thinking: “NONE of them? Are you SURE?”

And now kPower’s coup-de-grace of 2019 - stand back world:

So funny, I was lamenting the lack of meaningful activity on my favorite chat group website, so I decided to click on “unread messages” and the first message I saw was Dave Santos, and the second sentence was about me, and something I “simply lack”. What are the chances of that? Anyway, I was glad to read that “kPower” is (was in 2019) developing digital projection mapping on 3D figure kites for nighttime advertising. I see this message that first tries to cut me down (that’s OK, I can take it! :)), then brags about yet another kite breakthrough that kPower “is working on”,from 3.5 years ago, so I was curious to see the results after all this time.

I know when daveS says he is working on something, he is serious and reliable, so you can be sure he will quickly share his characteristically amazing results, but I guess I must have missed his amazing results this time.

Hey DaveS, where can I see a video of your (kPower’s) digital projection mapping on a 3D figure kite that you were working on? Oh wow, I can’t wait to see it. This is gonna be great! OK come on now, the suspense is killing me. Where can we see this kPower breakthrough, today? Thanks in advance! (Oh boy, I’m so excited!) :slight_smile:

laser projection onto materials…

This kid is awesome but
do check the warning at around 7min what happens when it’s shone on fabric too long

In the Twin range or similar with more rotors than two, rather than the Serpentine range, right?

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Hi Pierre: The Serpentine Prototype and the California Energy Commission Prototype, now on a relatively low stationary mount, have been run occasionally for demo purposes over the years.

The SuperTwins™ at a 10-foot diameter, have been run for years at 3 of my test sites, including here.

Paul Gipe ran an 8-foot-diameter early version in Tehachapi for a year, calling it “the most powerful turbine he has ever tested”.

A long demo with eight (8) 46" diameter rotors on a tubular Chromoly steel driveshaft ran very smoothly at high speed, unloaded, but the generator was an induction motor that was not connected to anything, but if it held together unloaded (going very fast) in high winds, that was a good sign:

We used the same generator on another demo unit that had many many 5-foot diameter rotors, for a demo for a film crew that flew in to do a video on us.

The “5-Star” turbine with 5 rotors, each sporting 5 thin blades, which tilted back flat for overspeed protection, ran into a battery-charging (grid tied system with batteries) for months at one of our test sites, producing high power:
Here is a video of it producing 4 kW:

4 kW is really too much power for the alternators we currently manufacture in-house, so this 5-star turbine, which was able to produce well over 4 kW at a 5-foot diameter (unheard of in wind energy) eventually burned out its alternator in sustained high winds at one of our test sites. Needs adjustment to reduce high-wind power output.

An earlier 5-Star Turbine featuring a thinner-stator version of our in-house-built alternator, nonetheless exceeded 5000 Watts in truck testing a couple of times

including as a demo for NREL at a Windpower trade show at Staples Center in Los Angeles:

This implies that the thicker-stator version could logically hit 7000-8000 Watts, but in reality, such high outputs will eventually burn out a generator of that size, so further adjustments for overspeed protection are needed if we wanted to produce and sell such a machine.

Now really, very few customers would have sites with such high sustained winds to burn out the generator, but for people in a good wind resource, and they are the ones you really have to focus on, it needs more work to reduce the output in extreme winds. Nonetheless, the concept as a whole is quite viable, and could easily be scaled up, both in length, and by multiple units mounted side-by-side.

The one that has been running for 10 years here is a spring-loaded, tilting Firefly with just two (2) downwind rotors at a 3-foot diameter. It is still running to this day into a small grid-tie inverter.

Anyway, we’ve tested a lot of versions here over the years, and sold a few SuperTwins, including to Europe.

I feel like we’ve barely scratched the surface of the possibilities and I am hoping to get back into wind energy more, as time left from running my ranch properties allows - did not even renew our ski passes this year.

Our latest wind energy project was to once again replace our 10 kW Bergey turbine on a 120-foot tower that powers this facility.

This is our third (3rd) one. The last one burned out due to installer error leaving one of 3 power wires unconnected but just contacting its terminal. It started making a buzzing noise that the manufacturer insisted was “normal” so when the wire eventually fell away from its terminal, the turbine went into a very loud single-phase operation, and the furling cable was broken as they all did before someone found a solution to that, just as Bergey stopped producing that model anyway, but with no way to shut it down, it burned out its alternator. The good news is I got a used one from a neighbor who got the government to buy him a new one because they had to move his for an Army Corps of Engineers drainage project, so now I have two, one to rebuild with a new (used) stator, if I can manage to successfully remove the old stator - it is a big generator that weighs a half-ton.

There are lots more videos and lots more testing that has taken place.

OK gotta go now. Time to go work out, then cook some breakfast. :slight_smile:


Quite impressive. Do you remember the weight (with and without the generator) of the 5-star, and the wind speed (I guess about 13 m/s)?

Concerning Serpentine, I thought that it was indeed for the demonstrations.

You could use this post to present your company.

Hi Pierre: The generator was a thin-stator version, probably 25 lbs or so for the generator alone - our thicker version weights 35 lbs, but could be made much lighter. The rest of the turbine included a minimal steel frame and thin-wall steel driveshaft, with cast-iron bearing assemblies supporting the driveshaft, so while relatively lightweight for a fixed-mount turbine, that exact configuration would be heavier than necessary for an airborne application.
There a few things here that might interest a few of you?
Maglev toy and a distinctive looking impeller turbine. Randomly popped into my feed. Don’t know how well it would scale? But something you can toy with? Looked a lot like a Francis turbine?


Wow, the only new post in a few days.
Nothing new in AWE I guess, Huh?
The moment my eyeballs saw the blue thing, in less than 1 second, my mind knew who had posted this.
How many volts something can make is irrelevant. All the beginners like to measure Volts, as though Volts alone tells you anything…
You can walk on carpet on a dry day and get what, a few thousand volts when you touch a doorknob? Someone should make a generator using carpet, shoe soles, and doorknobs! :slight_smile:

Its kind of neatly done, but I am «surprised» that someone would put so much work into a concept so far from state of the art understanding of efficient wind energy production. As it stands it would fall more in the «arts» category than «wind energy»

@dougselsam what an interesting mod suggestions? A wind powered vandergraph generator? They are looking at ways to generate electricity without magnets? Rubber and polyester in a TENG set up? Would just need pickups and your away. Pantograph perhaps? @tallakt well if wind energy can have some class to it? The sure an arts inspired turbine is not new. There are plenty’s out there. I was just looking at it for components and assembly angle. How big can you make one? What would be optimal diameter in this case? I’m looking at this being nesting in a far bigger shroud?

Maybe you will find others who are triggered by this design, but for me its just not very compelling to improve on a poor starting point. For arts I prefer the more serious stuff, paintings, music, dance, theatre etc.

Yeah, that turbine design could learn lot more from art.
It’s too solid…The blades are too close…

“Space is the Breath of Art”

Frank Lloyd Wright

The original windfarm turbines in the 1980’s used simple (Tesla-invented) induction motors - no magnets. Overspeed protection was stall-control by the limited RPM range - the wind gets too fast the blade automatically stall due to a too-high angle of attack.

Regarding the VanDerGraff generator, I think it should be done! How hard could it be? Then you run a wire up it and attach a key at the low end, put on a Benjamin Franklin costume with a wig and everything and do demos’. Tell people they can experience getting struck by lightning, and luckily, there is a VanDerGraff generator “just in case there is no lightning” - the show muc go on! “OK now just touch this key…” :slight_smile:

Yep, I like your thinking. Though I’d lean Into, “look what Thor left behind”? Shocking! he could’ve clean up after himself? Ben Franklin certainly would be a fun opportunity. The weird and wild world of flying sparks.

Tesla induction motor looks like it going to be a Sunday good read. If I recall? usually these type of motors have the crab claws set up. where the flux is shifted between pins. Often know as universal motors/ alternators. Working on switch reluctance. A good choice for micro generation. Parts are easy to come by. Scrap washing machine or an old automotive workshop. Van der Graff generator could be part of the design with incorporated induction motor? Just depends on the drive belts? Worth a go? Added bonus is anywhere in that drive belt can generate electricity. Which some parts can be used to excite the coils. Not not sure if you can get a 1 Tesla field coil for wind? I know they have a multiple Tesla field strengths for tokamak and stellarator. As far as things go the strength of the magnetic field is key. Could help with the scale of thing? Taking your basic design to previously unreachable highs. All thanks to wind power van der graffs. Given half a chance it’s skate/trolley wheels and polycotton belts. All while dressed as historical figures? Neat idea!

GitHub - OpenFAST/openfast: Main repository for the NREL-supported OpenFAST whole-turbine and FAST.Farm wind farm simulation codes. This might have wind turbine airfoil data.

A chordwise offset of the wing-pitch axis enhances rotational aerodynamic forces on insect wings: a numerical study | Journal of The Royal Society Interface A chordwise offset of the wing-pitch axis enhances rotational aerodynamic forces on insect wings: a numerical study

Michael Dickinson (CalTech) 1: How Flies Fly: Lift
Michael Dickinson (CalTech) 2: How Flies Fly: Power
Michael Dickinson (CalTech) 3: How Flies Fly: Control

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Nice: A biologist tries to explain “lift”. His “Bernoulli” explanation is long discredited as not sufficient even to explain lift from a bird or airplane wing. There is just not enough lift generated for flight by the mere difference in transit time from top to bottom, and that includes the fact that the air flows back, over the top, much faster than the wing’s forward motion.
I only watched the first video - one could waste all day listening to this crapola. I hope to do a video on the correct reason wings fly, which I understand, but which “nobody has figured out yet” according to “authorities” such as Scientific American: