The war in Ukraine and power

Maybe the war in Ukraine does show that cheap, transportable renewable power using AWE is not such a bad idea after all.

This article states that keeping the grid running is hard, and military equipment is more and more reliant on power.

AWE fits the bill quite nicely; no fuel transport, easy to transport etc

Dovetails nicely with “disaster relief”…

I think there is a big difference between military and disaster reliefs. In a disaster the people are often left more to their own devices, but in war, if you can’t keep military logistics running, the losses could be enourmous, and the will to spend $ on military is higher

In either case, you’d be entering a logistically-challenged area of extreme destruction, death, hope, anger, and impatience, with many injured needing immediate medical attention. Not the time or place to bring a technology endlessly supposedly hindered by “we just need a place to test!”
So is AWE in production, being shipped around the world from multiple factories, and ready to solve problems of a disaster or war zone, or is it more likely just still hoping for a place to even test a rig? Geez
I’m all in favor of quickly-deployed, easy-to-transport AWE systems that can solve major emergency power needs - so where is one?
Where’s the AWE-powered home? Cottage? Campsite? Doghouse? Hamster cage? Antfarm?

I think anything «plug-and-play» working out of the box with a battery and option to work with a diesel generator could be a winner. Because it would save fuel in the long run, by mass transported.

The most important things to optimize for would be ease of use and power to weight.

I realize AWE is still not quite there, but I don’t think necessarily we are very far away from a working solution, as the smaller kites are so much easier to deal with.

Maybe something like kite-x is doing has more potential though. Even better if coupled with a machine that could synthesize diesel in decent amounts

I think synthetic hydrocarbons could be big in the future.
Look at synthetic motor oil - made from natural gas - better than motor oil refined from crude oil.
People explore powdered metals etc. as a carrier for hydrogen.
Seems like a carbon chain is already a very good carrier for hydrogen.
And it’s like dishes you can eat with the food - burn the carrier too.
Around here we don’t like pump gas for dirt bikes and chainsaws. It smells dirty, and the dang gubmint makes them add 10% ethanol. Ethanol is hard on fuel systems. And it attracts water, ruining your engine. I buy pre-mixed fuel for my chainsaw, and it always starts easily and seldom gives me any trouble at all. More expensive, but worth it. And the fuel, as well as the exhaust, smell so good, like flowers or something. With pump gas, dirt bikes and chainsaws alike will smell bad, stall all the time, and run like crap.

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I dislike enabling idiot to kill themselves. But I hate see ordinary joes take a beating. because the big boys decided to play with big toys. If awes like hybrid system? Has anyone considered using rocket fuel? The technology is out there to dissociate hydrogen peroxide to water to create steam. Primarily using catalytic converters. To run a standard turbine. They can come in micro generator formats. Like your standard mobile generator. As far as I’m aware its carbon neutral. Able to be fitted cross platforms. Retrofitted into every form of transport. Essential ending up with steam powered supersonic flights. If it worked right hypersonic flight as well. no need for kerosene. It was first played with during the ww2. as far as I’m it come along way since then. That they have optimism concentrate to 35-50% for maximum superheating. It cream puffs a fairy farts tech. I’d even hazard a bet many in awes have dabbled in steampunk. So how will it stop the little bear fighting, the big bear you ask? Well as this is a resource war over minerals. It an opportunity to change the tactical strategy. Hydrogen peroxide and catalytic converters. Has the potential to reduce the requirements for oil. Maybe even get those idiots to stop fighting. Prevent things going thermonuclear. I’m fairly sure they love a cream tea or two? if the could stop shooting at each other? If they were able to broker a peace over a cup of tea flesh out a trade deal. Then they could all go home. Then the rest of the world could help in the clean up and rebuilding efforts. Fantastic options for awes to swoop in. To get them back on their feet. Which then give the green markets loads of options.

Wow that is an idea I have never heard before. When I was a kid, rocket-powered drag-racing cars used Hydrogen Peroxide passed over a platinum catalyst. Very loud. I think Evel Knievel’s fake rocket-powered “motorcycle” jump attempt over the Snake River Canyon used hydrogen peroxide. Jet-packs use it too. We had a local guy build his own rocket and then get killed when it crashed, and I think it was powered by Hydrogen Peroxide. Lots of weird stuff goes on way out in the desert!

There must be some previous work or info on this idea. It would be interesting to know the numbers on it as energy storage, if anyone has worked any of it out.

As far as the fighting over there, it’s illegal to stage a chicken fight in most countries, so why is it legal to send a bunch of people out into a field to kill each other?

Not sure how Hydrogen Peroxide really dovetails into this topic any more than any other energy source or method, but it sounds like it might be worth a look. Someone, somewhere, must have run the numbers. (And I’m guessing the numbers probably are not so great, or someone would have done it by now) But at this point I am curious.

OK I googled Hydrogen Peroxide as Energy Storage and there is a lot to read. The first one I found suggest 90% efficiency using a hydrogen peroxide fuel cell.

Backgrounds: talking to a chap on Yt. About smashing mallard steam record. Maybe pushing the old girl over the 150. The designing a 200mph version with the right support and help.

well in the convo this got mentioned. The black knight rockets the Brits used where hydrogen peroxide. prospero Was launched using one. The only Cold war satellite Britain’s got into orbit. It out there might be a sod to find? but worth a go.

Integza gave it a go. But he not the only person looking into peroxide based fuel. I’ve heard of overhauled locomotives. That use this technology the America’s alps locomotives being an example. There have been a few attempts in various shapes and forms over the years. Including the v2 rockets. Where most of the technology originated from. From what I’ve managed to read up on. The focus on lower concentration was to prevent what the nazis encountered. With dissolved pilots. Its out there. Even dropped a hint to Tesla. Shipping could benefit from the change. It practically would restructure the economy. Towards fuel cells. Steltic designs could be the way forward. A brain like mine will gnaw at a problem till it find practical solutions to complicated problems. Even better if there a grounding from which to springboard from. The science has be around for nearly 80 years. If someone wasn’t smart enough to go ohh yeah. I would be disappointed. Because there is a wealth out there. Diesel trucks can be modified to run on this provide the time strokes are right. Its impact can be reaching. Even the old coal fired power station could get an upgrade. Every time I hear “we can’t do it it’s too costly”. Your trading hot ashes for trees. Time to wreck that pile of scrap. Retrofit its cat converters and sail off into the sunshine. There millions to be had. it about public intrusion first and foremost. The whole industry needs a boot up the backside. because going green and clean has never been easier. You get taught this in class in both science and history. Potassium permanganate is often an entry level introduction. Platinum more advanced. But easiest to use. While the rest of the world squabbling of the death race. the anarchist mechanics could be swinging there spanner and getting to work. The greatest thing is the infrastructure is partially there. It just need to be utilised. Thrown into high gear. It got to be worth 2-3% reductions in temperatures.

Anyway, not sure about the viability of this specific technology or if hydrogen peroxide offers some breakthrough level of energy storage efficiency, but one aspect remains unchanged from all the other methods of energy storage, and that is its role of un-creating existing electricity, then recreating hat same electricity again later. Let’s take common gas, coal, nuclear, or hydroelectric power plants: Build one and that high cost is spread over a 24-hours of reliable, usually full capacity-factor generation, every day, as needed. Contrast that with an energy storage system. Built to address intermittency of renewables, the storage system is by definition also intermittent: It probably produces electricity for only a few hours per day at best. And it is probably only able to store energy for a few hours per day (not only when the wind is blowing or sun is shining, but when the grid can’t accept the extra power). So all this infrastructure for placement and interconnection must be built, but can only produce power for a few hours per day. All to rationalize other systems that can only produce power for a few hours per day.
So then you are back to AWE having a higher capacity factor. Really? Launching and landing AWE systems is going to be more available than my tower-mounted turbine that is free to start and stop all day in response to the slightest breeze? Always ready to go, starting up in seconds without any fanfare or attention required? Already spinning from light winds, so when even one gust comes thru it can generate power instantly?
“Renewables” in general: “All ya gotta do is provide storage!”
So easy!
Why does anyone question such perfect and simple logic, right?
Like if you aren’t making enough money “All ya gotta do” is get a credit card! Simple solutions! Why do people make things so hard?!?!

Hey Freeflying: Obviously you have an active brain. That is refreshing. What is your track record of finding practical solutions thusfar? Just wondering… :slight_smile:

Economics or accounting 101 for inventors:
I remember noting the campus at UCI seemed physically split between the “facts” side of campus and the “emotions” side of campus. All the hard sciences and engineering were on one side, all the arts, sociology, "English’, writing, media, etc., were on the other side. It was almost as though they didn’t want the emotion people knowing any hard facts, and didn’t want the “facts” people knowing anything social. This, I felt, was designed to produce useful and “harmless” workers. Keep peoples’ noses to the grindstone, following orders, knowing their place.
Then you have the accounting department, economics, etc., somewhere between hard and soft science (Economics is often called “the dismal science”.)

Anyway, an engineer is trained to solve engineering problems for an existing company. So they are not always familiarized with accounting principles. And most people watch artificially-created stories for entertainment, rather than the financial channels.

So here is a little accounting for you:
When an investor considers how to deploy his (her) capital, (how to invest their money) they are forced to compare various options that promise various returns.

Government bonds are considered the safest, but offer a low return of a few percent per year. Stocks of newer companies may go up in value, or stocks of more established industries may return a dividend or utilize stock buybacks to return value to the investors.

So someone investing toward the construction of a power plant has to calculate their projected return.

Building the plant will cost a lot of money. How many hours per day can the plant sell power, and at what price, to get you a good return on your hard-earned money?

If the answer is it can only sell power for 3 hours per day, that is only 1/8 (12.5%) of how many hours most power plants can sell power, even though the cost of the plants might be comparable.

So are you going to sell the stored power for eight times (8x) the normal price for electricity? If not, how do you expect to get a return on our investment?

This is the reality they don’t usually concentrate so much on in engineering or policy-centered studies. In the end, it’s often back to fairly simple arithmetic that we are not always taught to think about that determines whether projects of any kind are economically viable, which is what determines whether they are just a failed experiment, or the future.

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About a good as reinventing the wheel. Merely a messenger. To things I encounter doing me rounds. Maybe offering it out to the brain boxes who might know better than I. No point expending the time or effort if solutions exist. Yes my track record is something I need to work on. Thank you captain obvious. Meccano boxing this one. It took me 10 year to get this far maybe in 10 more with the right backing. Who knows maybe Mars but a man can dream. Provided my brain don’t sabotage my efforts. With distractions and inattention. Not trying to hide that one. be damn near impossible to. Baby brain on steroids. I try not looking in the wrong place but it a good chance if I’d only turn round I’d find what I’m looking for. Good at starting things not so good at following through. My 1001 thing to do list is my greatest enemy. It might a actually kill me. No joke. Theres my spanner stuck in my own gears. Much like hobbies on a scrap budget.

Don’t underestimate your abilities. If everybody had a “perfect” brain, there wouldn’t be so many problems left to solve. At lest you have an active brain and a lot of imagination. Not following through is a common problem. At least you see it. That’s a first step. So work on following through. Pick a problem and follow through to completing the solution. Plenty of challenges to choose from. :slight_smile:

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Indeed quiet reflection, step by step. So something for awes to gnash on.
I’m aware you can get catalytic cartridges for example…

This one the basic verity model. But you do get them in finer honeycombs. Depends exactly how this scales up. We all may remember how bottle form up in lines along the sacred geometry pattern. sometimes people love to stare at a cry pretty. Well same true here with cartridges. For example….

If tightly bundled? Will fit in a large bore pipe leading to a funnel. To amp up the pressures, To run a turbine. Went looking for a rough idea how much hydrogen peroxide cost at 50%

It work out somewhere in the region of £15 per litre. I suspect it may change due to concentrates %… now the money gods will what to know? how effective can it convert a test batch to energy production. So how much steam per litre are you talking about? That a run time test.
there may other ways to do this? If you have means to anodised platinum on mass to a mesh. Then roll it up tight… fit that in a pipe of chosen dia. Maybe a day or twos work. Plus fitting on site. With bolt on parts.
So that would be
*catalyst unit.
Plug and play.

Why would anyone invest you ask? Wild fires causing billions in damage each year. Money saved by not having to replace everything that got eaten by the flames. The lords Jerusalem got torched in 40’ heat. London burned so did many others parts of Britain. Leaving a smouldering wasteland. Not so green and pleasant land. If you ask me? Wildfires are going to be a curse. For me it a broad scope thing. Focused and targeted investments. To achieve desired outcomes. I’ve also got homemade bio gas on my mind but that a tale for another time. Plus dreams of low impact economy.