The concept reminds me a little of an areospike engine and super cavitating torpedo. So can see why nasa would want to poke at it. Examples below
One issue the design might face is changing air pressure much like the aero spike does. I believe there a stepped design out there that takes advantage of this. I wouldn’t be able to quote the exact paper. Hence why I thought multiple opening were a good idea. As there would be a greater chance to generate the pressure required for thrust. I do have to wonder? If the thrust aspect could be improved somewhat? increasing airflow under the wing itself with a lower exhaust port. I get the boundary layer is the main driving force. So why didn’t they include a lower vent in the design? It seam that it would be simple enough to do. With guttering providing the leading edge and discharge flows. which should up the potential for greater efficiencies and suction forces at the main intake. Being there’s two exhaust points and only a single intake. I’d imagine ablative stress would come into effect somewhere. Through friction and surface heating. Few things can withstand the heating at higher Mach numbers. Intumescent paint come close but the don’t do well under erosion. Maybe a polycrystalline structure might? But then again we are taking material limitations. Then you also have the issue of ice formation much like a blast chiller. So what ever some one uses there a multiple challenges to overcome. On the plus side you could alway make it snow. Provided you get the condition right. Its a global warming solution if every there was one. But this technology open the door to hypersonic gliders. Powered by wind and gravity. Only really needing a micro turbine and batteries for take of. Carbon footprint reduction by a factor of 1000 at least. I dreamed of such a vehicle years ago with a guy that now my local bar. Just struggled to get my head out of the knots it was in. so I could get my head around it. Co flow jets renewing that spark. Yeah great idea! Especially if it helps ditch hydrocarbons. Clean up aviation, automotive, and energy production as a whole. It would be funny to see someone of the propose aircraft fly on an engine no big than a soil drain pipe. You have nasa blend wing project that could benefit from this technology. Even the a380 super jumbos would massive benefit from this. The wing span already having one of the highest lift ratios. that it has to be strapped to the tarmac in adverse weather to stop it blowing over the airfield. If your saying that it can improve standard lift by 4000%. I’d say that’s worth a go. Just depends how big you want it? Like Japanese anime Yamamoto and flying ships. That would depend of the Number of kilogram it can lift? 1000tn? 2000tn? I dream big sometimes if awes could have a megastructure like that? it would be impressive! Go big or go home comes to mind.
As shown on the video below the angle of attack (AoA) is limited at about 15-20 degrees. So the lift coefficient (CL) is also limited because of stall beyond this value:
There are some means to increase the CL such like slots and flaps that are generally used for takeoff and landing (see High lift coefficient and biplane kite and the video below) while the drag coefficient is also increasing:
CFJ (video below) looks to be another possibility to increase both AoA and CL while decreasing also the drag coefficient until a negative value = trust.
Scientists are generally not directly interested in industrial applications, just as philosophers such as Kant or Hegel rarely popularized their writings.
It is up to industrialists (who may also be researchers) to become aware of the theories that are circulating to see which ones would find applications in their respective fields.
I think DS is right on this one though. Only look to this in conjunction with AWE if it is strictly necessary. We generally want to reduce scope and risk to get the soonest results. And this is very interesting for future AWE. But if you do this together now I think it could only be a fun experiment that maybe someone will commercialise in 50 years from now.
There are many things like this; eg why is no AWE company using tether fairings even though it is quite obviously a great potential? Its just because there are more pressing things to attend to, like making any power first. There are lots of these things floating around that people are also well aware of. But to be successful, one must keep any unnecessary distractions away so as to at least finish the important things. Then later its a race to include these other innovations incrementally.
Thanks for the great videos Pierre, especially the one with the researcher himself.
This is not the first time I’ve seen similar schemes for increasing lift.
Such wind tunnel experiments have been conducted for many years, if memory serves.
Not sure exactly what is totally new about this version, but it does look very promising.
(Of course, everything “looks” promising as long as you are only hearing from the promoters.)
It would be cool if it could turn out to provide all the thrust necessary and replace the propellers.
I’ll add another control surface to the list: Spoilerons (spoilers acting like ailerons).
An Atos brand hang glider from Germany uses semi-rigid wings with rigid “D-tube” carbon fiber leading edges. The main control is a spoiler on top of each wing. Triggering a spoiler on one wing to lift up has two effects:
causes drag on that wing, which results in the glider yawing (turning) in that direction
spoils the lift on the wing, which drops that wing, so the glider also rolls in the same direction.
The result is a turn in the direction of whichever spoiler, left or right, was triggered to rise off the upper wing surface.
It is all controlled by cables connected to the control bar which in the case of ATOS is not rigidly attached to the frame, but moveable left and right.
Pitch is still controlled by weight shift - pull the bar forward or backward.
You can see the spoilerons working in this video:
My friend Herb, who lives here, but is from Germany, and who is like 80 years old and refuses to wear a parachute, designed his own sitting harness AND his own way to control the spoilerons.
Herb’s ATOS glider has the control bar rigidly attached to the glider frame by the guy wires - not moveable, and he has attached two (2) vertical twist grips (motorcycle throttle type) to his control bar to control the spoilerons. God help him if a cable gets stuck or breaks, with no parachute!
You can watch Herb flying his customized ATOS glider overhead in this video my girlfriend and I took a few years ago:
Herb only weighs like 110 lbs., so he pops into the air the moment we let go of his glider.
I am the one in the purple sweatshirt hoodie helping the guys to launch.
There’s also such a thing as “flaperons” which are a combination of flap and aileron.
OK so I was just clicking around on this and found blown wing surfaces were tried a lot maybe 50 years ago, and even 70 years ago, and used in several production aircraft, but mostly abandoned due to complicated maintenance, dirt clogging valves, and danger of system shutdown at critical moments, all kinds of reasons. Imagine you are landing and the system has a problem on one wing - the plane goes into a spin dive and everyone is toast. It’s been used in everything jet fighters to transport aircraft. The techniques do greatly multiply lift, and greatly reduce runway length.
Turns out it is a broad and widely utilized field of aerodynamics. Key words are
“blown flaps”, “circulation control wing”
I think we’ve barely scratched the surface of a huge topic.
BTW speaking of hang-gliding, the way we land is to skim the ground, then when the speed slows to almost stall-speed, flip the wing up sharply and stall the entire wing, which quickly stops (brakes) the glider and maybe lifts you up a foot or two, then you drop vertically to the ground. If you only stall one side of the wing, you will enter a “ground-loop” which spins you sideways, so you want to try hard to stall both wingtips, which is a challenge since the wingtips have “washout” (lowered angle of attack) to prevent unintentional spins due to stalling of one wing.
After a bit more searching, it looks like the general term is “boundary layer control” and “boundary layer control system” (BLCS).
Quite a vast topic.
Interesting that both blowing and suction at the top middle of the airfoil have been used and both work - I guess.
It’s been used to reduce takeoff and landing speed for jet fighters since the 1950’s.
Usually compressed air (for many other uses too) is drawn from a bypass at the compressor section of the jet engine.
An AI example of an Injector port. A design by AI that could cosy up with the co flow idea. (Blcs)/ blow flap. Ect, ect! I like the rapid production prospects of such a design.
Professor Crackpot with another perpetual motion machine - “needs no fuel” because the good professor decided not to do a proper energy audit. Of course he includes “vertical-axis wind turbines” (OMG) just like someone with chicken pox has red spots. (By the way, did you know the only reason the wind industry doesn’t use vertical-axis wind turbines is because they are so ignorant? Yup I’ve heard it several times, from people who know a LOT more about wind energy than those stupid professional wind turbine designers!)
The envelopes, wings, wind turbines, compressors, tanks, tail, etc. are so lightly constructed as to be lighter than air, yet the envelopes’ gas contents can be compressed, because the lightweight envelopes are SO strong they can also double as giant compressed air tanks. I’m sure it will be fine with all that helium and air compressed to maybe a third of an atmosphere, no problem. The wings are magically featherweight, yet very strong, and, well anyway I remember debunking the more basic idea of just a blimp that could tilt and change its buoyancy using compressors, endlessly traveling without fuel, pointing out that the power for the compressors has to come from somewhere, and that is what powers the blimp. So this Professor Crackpot (team crackpot?) overcomes this by vertical-axis wind turbines mounted on the craft powering the compressors that then in turn power the craft. (Maybe they should also develop just an airplane with vertical-axis propellers? Hmmm…) So he adds an additional layer of confusion in the form of more perpetual motion. Nice idea, but back to “no free lunch”. Should it include Co-Flow Jets? Of course! Ideally it should include as many interesting ideas (especially if they suck!) as possible, and be as complicated as possible, so nobody can figure out that it wouldn’t work in the first place. And it should be covered with LED lights that can flash pictures of naked girls to the teeming throngs below, also powered by the vertical-axis turbines.
It is very challenging to develop electric aircraft due to the low battery power density. The first product we are developing is a general aviation(GA) electric CFJ airplane shown below. It carries 4 passengers with a range of 360 miles and cruise speed of 221 Miles/h. It is based on current Li-Ion battery power density of 250Wh/kg. With the battery technology continuing to be developed, the aircraft payload and range will be increased scalable to the increasing battery power density. We use the ultra high aerodynamic efficiency to compensate the current low battery power density in order to achieve a range more than twice longer than a same size conventional design. The aircraft also has a very short takeoff/landing distance with very low noise due to the ultra-high lift coefficient. A distributed propulsion system is used to ensure high safety and reliability.
Well as lad that grew up near the old dehaviland factory. It’s all about the selection of materials. Laminate construction is nothing new with regards to aviation. If the brits could build a mosquito fight bombs that out shone most of its competitors. Then the power to weight ratio shouldn’t be an issue. For one you don’t have protrusion that can disturb airflow. Which is a bonus.
Skin on frame is know to be extremely light and versatile. Considering the gestapo used to run from planes built like ours. Are you really telling me it’s Impossible? Heck if a Lancaster bomber was designed on a newspaper. Without the aid of Cad. Then what the heck is Awes doing? Wing trusses are by far the easiest thing to make. Glue lam is widely accepted construction method. The weight is not the issue here. It how effectively it can create lift and withstand incoming forces.
When I quick knocked out the model I made today. just to see if it was possible to make it quickly cheaply and simply. With a resounding yes! it looks like the next stage could be scaling up. We have an added advantage the the ww2 engineering’s didn’t which can come to the rescue if needed. There’s over a million way to go about this. Blow Mold forming. Where the wing could be continuous formed from a plastic sock. Which is formed as part of an injection moulding process. You have 3D printing. Hydroforming. Pressed shells. Carbon fibre and fibreglass. To name but a few. I hear figures of 0.2 mm thinkness floating about. Depending material.
Just for some scope. I’m aware the design can be nested in such a way to maximise the lift zone. Converging airflow = more thrust over a great square volume. If that can be compressed? It can be regulated and then you have winning possibilities. I’m also considering the suction, such a design provides, look awfully like a blackhole analog. So in theroy being sucked forward rather than being thrusted forward if it were an aircraft. As for it use in awes well that where it becomes interesting. Essentially it becomes wind and gravity powered turbine. If it flys in a figure of eight format? It may even be possible? design it in such a way that it kept aloft, by its forward momentum against gravity. Much like how hydro power needs a certain head of water or flow rate to create pressure. So depending on the route. Keep it light but a hight compression ratio. Or bulky with a low compression ratio. The first favours agility. the second favours mass. With 100000 metric tons trying to fall to earth. I bet it would have significant ability to compress the air around it. Perhaps even enough to keep it aloft. 9.8m/s/s is pull of gravity on a falling object. the air volume forced into the ducts and compressed = thrust. mass of the object will play a part and the speed at which it travels. I wonder the ratios that will be needed to pull of a balancing act.
Throw in the standard surface control into the mix. Then you might be somewhere in the ball park? It’s a bit of dead reckoning on my part. But it might be enough for a smarter lad than me to figure it out. I may struggle to write an equation Down. But given half a chance I might be able to lend a few pointers to those in the know. It could be crazy, but if theres method? it’s not madness! Plus if electric propulsion is the way? then what MIT did with ion propulsion. effectively could be enhanced? Perhaps even to the level of floating mega cities? Anyway that my two cents on the matter. If anyone wants to throw their hat in the ring? Please do so!
The Turbosail is an example of suction wing, such like on
Jointly developed by Crain and its partner REEL (Rationnel Economique Esthétique Léger), the SW270 is a solid thick wing, fitted with a rear flap. Grids located on both sides of the wing section create a suction force that draws the air stream around the wing section from the outside to the inside of the wing. The wing is mounted on a structural foundation which contains the suction fan required to operate the system.
Based on the principle of boundary layer suction, the Suction Wing concept delivers a very high lift coefficient, which reduces the size of the device needed to achieve a given pull force. Thanks to the shape of the system, the drag remains moderate. Therefore, the lift-to-drag ratio provides a good performance in upwind conditions and for ships sailing at relatively high speeds, using the wind to propel the ship in combination with the main engine. Furthermore, the wing section can rotate around a vertical axis to adjust to wind direction and optimize performance.
While the Suction Wing concept can be derived in a range of sizes in order to fit various vessel sizes, the device considered in this AiP was a wing with a span of 27m.
BV worked very closely with Crain Technologies from the earliest stages. The AiP was delivered in accordance with BV’s Rule Note for Wind Propulsion Systems (WPS) – NR 206. It follows a thorough assessment of the conceptual design, risk analysis, wind tunnel report, preliminary stability, loadings and the general arrangement. This AiP assures that this new technology can be safely used and is ready for the next phase of its development and installation on-board.
Is this consept like the blown flaps of the F-104 Starfighter jet? To increase the lift of a underdimentioned wing with the help of the engines blowing air over the flaps.
I’m not seeing a diagram anywhere that would explain how it is supposed to work.
The company itself seems to be all over the map of supposed “green” tech and other such tech.
Looks like they are “throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks”.
Saw a quote from one of my guitar heroes, Joe Walsh (Eagles, etc.)
In speaking about the music business, mentioned finding that “if you act like you know what you’re doing, people will think you know what you’re doing”.
Of course, as we know from AWE, that is NO indication you DO know what you’re doing…
