Here’s one for Jason…
I want to see this on a plane/kite/launcher soon
AirJet by Frore
an active solid state PC chip cooler with exhaust at 200kph
1W
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Yes there is a way. Lord in heavens hail the solenoid! More like a bank of solenoids. I sat there thinking can this be super size? answer: yes!
Everyone should know that a pressure wave will move along a sheet casing it to flap. Many of us must of watch our mams wash lines flap in the breeze? This is no different. Much like how the wave energy generators work? It don’t have to be heavy weight? You can use a super lightweight polymer film? Similar to the insulation nasa uses. Or marathon runner use after the Finnish line? Basically it diaphragm! It the same thing as a hi-fi speakers it only need vibrate at high frequency to generator electricity.
I bet you could make a scram jet out of it? 100k bet you could make a scramjet out of it?
Knowing materials cost for a model your looking at £500>£1000 to make one. flew moving parts. All that is is a steel tray with a linear solenoid array.
If I was being extremely cheeky? £100. That’s using stainless steel shelf’s from
Home Depot
Or you garden verity diy store?
Price brakedown
£12-15 80kg shelf unit.
Set of speakers diaphragms.
Budget about £50
Leaving about £25 for the electronic gubbins such as midi controllers or custom components.
In fact I bet that you could take a jet of today and modify it to fly using the system. for it to be fully electricity at the same time. I wet my self laughing if a Air a380 fly under this power? The engines will give you the max weight you could use? With a second layer bolted directly under the wing? You might get extra structural strength?
It think it could be done? If you were desperate? Heavy duty treated Canvas. Treated with intumescent paint. Should remain flexible enough.
Added bonus, is the bottom tray can have ionic inducers install at a later date. EWICON system can also be in place effectively making it a hybrid system? Altogether you should be able to get the bird of the runway?
There a relation be opening size and the amount of air you should be able to funnel through? I’ve been toy with idea like this for some time. Especially a gravity powered jet engine.
As you only need the engine to to get you off the ground and the gravity can do the rest. Cleanest propulsion I could think of? It also means you can have higher compression? Higher density airflow. Less atmosphere disturbance. As it can act like a dyson Hand dryers. Ad your aero spike nozzle at the back? Then, it’s away you go! Plug in your music mix and away you go! Led zeppelin, Zz top. Or something more choice?
It a bit crude. but should give people the basics idea what to aim for?
Another way to look at it is forge bellows? Co flow jet may be employed? Linear Ionic hall thrust tech can be used.
Even springs if you want to go electricity free?
It just about figuring out how your going to move air around? Fewest moving parts. Nitinol sheet metal might also do the trick? Due to being a memory flex material. @Rodread you ask how it could be done? I do believe there is room for an awes version too?
Having sat and had a thunk about it? It reminds me a lot of the wave pools
This ones the US naval centre version. Green propulsion could be right around the corner?
Based on the solid state cooling
Visual model only. Just for perspective.
About an hours work! The end of the channel can tapper. Increasing compression. Therefore thrust?
Thrown together with available materials.
For me that’s magnets and plywood and cardboard.
This version is with out the ion inducer or ewicon I did this to show how quickly it could be done. It can also have the aero spike nozzle added as when required?
Plenty of room for improvement
Thanks @Rodread for keying me in.
I’m concerned that a MEMS device wiggling and moving air about at tiny scales
is a concept which will not scale well Jason.
I suspect the small scale constraint of the cooling chip chamber size and the high MEMS frequencies + lack of boundary layer viscous drag are a very different proposition to large scale wave guides.
I believe it was you who posted?
Considering pressure wakes, solitons and the usual suspects when it comes to fluid dynamics. Forgive if I cannot see much difference in the mechanics of the cuttle fish and wave guide I have in mind. Granted its early days.
You also have to consider the fact the you effectively have a variable piston in a channel. Much like box bellows or accordion bellows?
Oh Jason
I had thought you were maximising the scale of the cooling MEMS device for accelerating air with electrical energy input
I apologise… Now I think maybe you’re doing the “right thing” (Who knows where right is any more?) - reversing the system and taking energy from air flow using large scale perturbation . hmmmm
may work to some extent.
But this design would use reciprocal motion generation which … meh
One thing I would say (My wife would say - it’s just the voice in my head now) from your very quickly made prototype photograph. I have some advice on a bottom up approach to help your prototype with 2 simple tool techniques. One is brushing, one is mopping. Sort that floor out. My wife is very disciplined.
Fair doos On the cleaning side. It something I’ve never really been 100% with. Task management/ switch between tasks is something I struggle with. I have to take a very different approach. Block cleans. Bite sized chunks for practical reasons. I’m lucky these days if I can get my room codified? It was a hasty photograph. I’d admit my attention to detail there was wayward when I took it . I was more focused on the model than I was the wreck of the floor. Or the cat food pouches off shot. Normal a bin on the landing I just had got to cleaning. Gosh some of the kids I knew growing up can attest to the toy hoard I had. Can clean fine. its just getting in the habit.
Back to the design though
It has been possible for sometime to make. Just depends on the length and diameter of the solenoid and Conrods? Another mod I think can be made is? Riffles like in a gold sluice box? Just to amplify the disturbance in the air. So you end up with a rolling vortex running down the length of the box? Which in theory should suck more air in increasing air density and to volume in the airflow
Just for example: the Pratt and Whitney PW1000G has 63>147kn of thrust
Swans are known to have a huge surface are compared to body size.
Some think it a folk myth the swans brake arms. Ive know a few people that happened to. Could kid I grew up with were warned found out the hard way.
Eagle and condors vultures, albatross. Just for some idea on numbers.
V1= total volume m3 available in a channel
VR= Max operation position to minimum operation position = stroke length along the length the diaphragm.
( bear in mind that it is variable volume diaphragm?) so more sections will have more available during a flow cycle.
Then you have evacuation rates. In Kn of thrust. This will be flow rates and flow density. Measured in m3/s & kg/s respectfully adding up to trust. Then it just the frequency of the evacuations the will determine total flight speed.
Goes into potential designs? You can trade the pcb pipe for metal rods to act as guide. He talks of a chap who wanted to power his boat with just a float and a tube? In one test he get 220v it’s not to much a leap of the imagination to see multiple unit acting in unison. It might need a variable eccentric? To work with the diaphragm? Basically variable eccentric is a disk with a machined slot cut into it. Usually going from Tdc to a return point would look something like a machinist Pac-Man? As seen in photo. But much cleaner than a cardboard demo. Might even use a cross slide?
This could also be used an a motor assembly connected with cross bar on both sidewall. instead of solenoids? The whole outer dia. Can be used to generate electricity or provide trust?
There so many different ways to go about it? Its pros & con game. Also working with things people are familiar with might help?
Multiple options? Many different things to consider?
I think there is a big problem with the enclosed cuttlefish model… (hey it needed a name)
Each flap in series is extracting more energy from the flow.
You’d probably be better off with the Dave Santos single flipwing
Why was this made it’s own topic?
Which I look to have started too .
Bit odd
The original topic is not a discussion topic, and is not about anyone here making something, which should better go in a dedicated topic. Every comment there should really have a link to an interesting concept and not much else. The idea is that the topic is an index of interesting ideas that you can quickly browse through. .
Well this Is a mystery? I wonder if some big wigs noticed? Though @Rodread deserve some credit for lighting the fuse. It been a year since my last upgrade in topics? Has someone noticed it’s usefulness? I’m not going to complain. Really quite chuffed.
If anyone want to know what I thing it’s called? I’d go with acoustic scramjet. Same tech is in speakers. But also in
Just a matter of scale and size.
As it works on the volume of any give medium able to pass through.
So that can be tidal, wave, or wind. Vortex shedding could play a huge part in the operation?
I’m open to other names. Technically it’s a glorified speaker box?
Totally open to open sourcing this. As I haven’t the foggiest on current patents. Or similar project to my exit stage left?
I don’t really have the facility Atm moment? Sure I can get away with the odd build. but nothing special. Scrap kit bashes are easy enough. Also explaining roughly what to do? Helps.
Open to joint effort. Collaboration? If anyone wish to pitch in or suggest something you more than welcome? Be glad to hear it!
Well I still think that first link (The Frore fanless cooler air accelerator) was just a random Engineering, Physics, concept/ idea and belongs right where it started.
It’s now in a post with “A wind generator which generates when there is no wind” darnit
Oh for crying out loud Jason come on - Nonsense. please no.
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The concept in the tube is essentially a seismograph but in reverse. Yep its possible? There are examples of reciprocal springs being used? Piezoelectric circuit can work on vibrations. So not total unfeasible. Granted it unlikely any would use it on a day to day? Just a question of how simple do you want it?
I could get into vortex tubes just for giggles? But plenty others already done that. See here for reference?
The tube has two thing going for it pressure drops and gravity.
It just a question of how frequently and how fast a magnet resonates in a coil. The harder the magnets hit it the higher the current.
Forced oscillation resonance.
hunting oscillation Is very similar. basically building up till a train derails. Inside a tube there is room for the oscillation to build. Think water trapped in a bathtub. the energy can build up exponentially till you get a freak wave.
Same is true here.
Provide you have a constant input? It something Nikolai Tesla toyed with?
His earthquake generator worked on a similar principles. Tesla oscillator
If one of the smartest men of the last century could figure something out? I think we can? Simple technology used to great effect!
I was struggling to remember where I’d seen the concept before?
These two perfect explain it.
Having a thunk on better names. Sinusoidal scramjets but one? Fairly sure that there might be others? Drop a comment if you can think of others?
For comparison,
Various examples of sinusoidal axial plates can be described here.
What I will at some point get to grips with a linear sinusoids?
It should be possible to generate solitons waves with it?
Open to suggestions and input. Even developments and improvements.
If AWES wants to go big?
There’s always resonance harmonics?
If it has the power to destroy bridges? It has the same ability to light up our world.
All you would need is fixed points and a good breeze?
Not sure if Dave Santos gave it a thought with his kite networks?
I suspect once in motion that it would become self sustaining?
Cable stays can be modified into linear accelerators? Alternative depending on how its rigged? Used to power a plunger style pump generator? (( toy only reference of mechanism I could find))
If you have fixed cables lengths? That can pull on a reciprocal drive sat in a generator house? Each cable then leads to a separate generator station.
They are able to move freely and independently of each other generate electricity?
Mothra does come to mind. We will try to not go down the mothra road. It too well traveled. I’m consider something far larger? Large enough to span rivers canyon and ravines. Even large rocky out crops? Eg.
Or more my neck of the woods
Though I have mind to stretch it between old Harry rock and the needles on the Isle of Wight? 18 miles if I recall?
Worlds biggest fixed Awes anybody?
Essentially find a large gap and span it?
Make electricity?
As wind energy grows? It need it own version of hydro electric mega structure?
Sinusoidal structure but one way to go about it?
Hi Jason,
A long time ago I posted this (for prevailing winds in two opposite directions):
It would be a vertical axis wind turbine (VAWT) but set horizontally. Not to mention the protests from people wanting to protect remarkable sites (including mine…), perhaps soft blades would be more appropriate and have a longer reach. See what one company has designed:
Putting this horizontally between two anchors like the VAWT just above on the website.
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Just to give you some idea what I’ve been up to?
This morning contacted the designer of the millennium bridge in London.
Basically the bridge has dampers. If switched out could be used to generate electricity? In fact you could retro fit many bridges like this to generate electricity? From the resonance harmonics. Then you might have a winner? Yes I like what you done though not what I had in mind?
Might be able to out do the three gorges dam if done right?
As for cheep ideas? Testers.
Though find local suppliers in your areas?
Going back to simple trough/ c channel. With a membrane.
It might be possible to use a wind brake and variable eccentric cams? To act as the top diaphragm?
Who hasn’t been on a beach when a gust comes in? Then lifts the whole windbreak skywards? Then been unlucky enough to get hit in the face with the poles? I have it wasn’t funny. Setting wind brakes are a dangerous operation. The rolling air currents being the reason it happens.
You see it a lot with awnings, tents, and marquees. This would be no different. Flexible carbon fibre might also do the trick?
If done right the materials are recoverable? They should be fully recyclable?
I would suggest changing out the wooden poles for thick wall tubing
Should be what you get to see? If a smoke test is done?
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Visually only. Recommend not using mask tape on working version. But you could make something with carbon fibre and cardboard core?
I did this to give an example of what a wind brake set up pre mod stage would look like?
When I thought about it a bridge crossing no different to what I have represented here?
This version requires the variable eccentric? To work though it would not take much to mod to liner motor style?
Though made for wave energy? Wind could be employed here? I knew I’d seen something like this could remember where? There’s a patent something to go by? Some which could be used?