For custom linear coils. 2000 turns might do the job? You Need one top and bottom if used flat tape? I don’t know if you can get high strenght poly magnets tape? So the link is just an example? tape flowing through a coil set length would determine how much it could generate?
With a spool?
Supporting systems: battery and flywheel?
Assembly should be easy enough? The mesh making dimples on the sticky side. Much like golf ball dimples? Then it should enter under a drag rotor type? The only thing missing is a collector and compression to generate the airflow required to make it work?
The alternative think magnet beads woven/strung into the mesh? Much like prayer beads. Or the whole craft of beading in general? Have encountered some of the geometric bead on my travels? Eg.
Visually references only! Just to give you some idea? What shapes are out there? It occurred to me this morning the various style of beads have aerodynamic qualities? One that might work well with drag?
Obviously there will be an optimal limit? Mass of airflow+drag potential vs tapes overall weight? Should be equal to lift?
As displayed a general parts list? I see no reason why if taking the bead route, The beads couldn’t be polymagnets? Or inset into a holding bead?
There my take on it? By all means chime in? If you think you have something you could add?
@Freeflying so what you’re proposing …
please for the love of the wee man stop me if I’m wrong
is a flying string shooter as an AWES.
A flying system which gathers wind energy, in open wind flow
to propel a fluffy string loop through a pipe (at altitude is how string shooter pipes start) with a blast of enhanced wind flow, from let’s say a collection of upwind kites a bit like a funnel?
And let’s hopefully presume… use the motion of this fluffy loop to somehow drive magnets past coiled wire … up in the air and send that electrical power down the tether.
?
When I get a room in an asylum - I definitely want a view of this
@Rodread what I’m proposing can be used in a verity of ways? Firstly As a ground based module with no need for tethers. I’m also proposing variants that are airborne. That could be rigged in a number of way? Direct drive tether between ground and base unit? Or fully airborne with cable connection to ground. Having it all based loosely on a string shooter?
All variants would be in open flow. As that the nature of the idea.
There a variant which could use shuttle cocks as a main component? It wouldn’t take all that much to do? Think magnet with shuttles skirt but in a long chain? There so many way I can think of doing this? that it would take me all day to explain? There are so many components variables. That it might as well be categorised as it’s own field of study?
The tech partly exist as?
This would be a more advance example of the technology? With an open and shut mechanism? Theres potentially no limit to scale? Cost might factor? It is possible from a technical angle? It just questions of practical?
So yes I am proposing a type of awes. Which would have numerous subcategories? With versatility being one of the key goals? If done right? It should pack down and be able to be thrown in a Land Rover? I would not be able to say how many watts is might produce? But that something that can be bridged in due course?
As verity goes I don’t think it could be beaten? So it could go from something small enough to charge a mobile phone? to multi mw?
Most of the key details are in the vid I posted? If built sturdy enough hurricane resistance might just be achieved? Which is a whole other ball game?
Btw, if I get locked up for being complete bat shiz mental? I to would want to spend my days staring at the pretty streamer. Knowing I had a hand in getting it going?
30m is mentioned as string length? I don’t know exactly where the upper limit would be? But it does leave room for it to be dialled in?
The chap in the vid was using a shop vac? He was getting 80mph wind speeds? Real world translation is what on the table? How would this transfer to real world senecios?
I imagine if the bead options isn’t fixing right? The you have a projectile dispenser? The tape would and tension limits? So rope handling with be a top requirement. No point build the best clean generator? if it can cut a man in two?
That’s the proposal. @Windy_Skies like the idea of a string shooter awes. Just need to find the best way of going about it?
No, I thought the video was nice. It explained some of the principles behind string shooter pipes and did it nicely. And it at least wasn’t another video of that time waster.
This idea wouldn’t work.
What are some reasons this idea wouldn’t work do you think? After you’ve worked on an idea for a bit you absolutely need to look at where you are going wrong to avoid wasting your time. Preexisting knowledge and experience can help with this.
The best thing for you to do would be to learn about wind energy, and do some project based learning where you make say an rc plane, a kite, a wind turbine, and so on from existing plans.
After you have a bit more experience you can more easily make a list of reasons why this idea for example is bad.
Now it’s like you keep asking what do you think the answer to 2+1 is, and to 3+4, and to 2+1? Do some homework yourself beforehand and you’ll get more help.
We all have dumb ideas. The trick is to not only think about why an idea might be good, but after a while also think about why it might be bad. It’s a cycle. Think of dumb idea > develop it > develop it > shit, it’s drag based > pivot > develop it > nope, bad idea > hmm, I like that aspect of it > develop that > no, bad idea after all > ask for feedback > …
Very well,
I normal ask questions before going mental. Still follows a system of process. In my own experience it has been the dumb ideas that many dismissed the work better than people first thought? It has been the paradox within the paradigm for a long time. They mocked the guys who were pioneers of flight.
With all your experience windy? I thought you might have seen a nugget of gold in the idea? It why I ask you guys? There are element of the idea that could backfire? Just take a deeper look I’ve described what is a flexible motor design? As dumb and stupid are interchangeable? The proposal is about as easy as it get in the assembly front? It with good reason I believe it wouldn’t take much to find out?
Plus of all the things discussed here? Anyone might think you have some idea on the design front? Even when I was looking at it ? brain thought maybe a little co flow jest conveyor?
If you were to make it work?oh, wise one. What would you do?
If it in direction equilibrium with the air flow? Surely that means high efficiency? Simply because it goes with the flow! Sure there might be constraints? With regards to strings mass? Ratio between the mass of the string and airflow over it?
It seems logical due to the aerodynamic principles in play? Ideas are only dumb if not well fleshed out?
Yes there are some notable flaws. like frayed rope will break under tension ?
How the shape will it effect vortices forming? Ect. Ect. There plenty of boundary layers trick that could be used?
On the math front 3,5,3. invert bell curve?
Btw I got here by reading and hours of homework. I might be lost for direction? but that fairly common in these circumstances. So if you think you could turn the string shooter into a generator? I’m all ears?
I want to here your technically explanation? So @Windy_Skies how would you do it if presented as a challenge? How would you macgyver it?
I wasn’t thinking it was dumb I was thinking how could it get done?
That was me put my gauntlet on the table and saying can it be done?
It is the first time I see it at work by driving a reel under the effect of a blower, even if it is not yet an AWES as such. It would now be useful to consider how a large natural air flow (the wind) might act on a circular ribbon, and how to work the ribbon in such a way as to facilitate its speed. By making holes? And where?
Thank you for your ideas that can work as triggers and move the stagnating AWE discipline forward. The way you put question marks in every sentence is an interesting call for collective intelligence: there will always be technicians able to develop the ideas that emerge little by little.
@PierreB yes it does look a lot like laddermill? I’m just considering one ribbon? Golf balls.
Are dimpled so the fly further the same could happen here? I see no reason why you can’t dimple a ribbon. The micro vortices should help create lift? It why I suggest smooth side and rough side?
As a collective it can be easier to share ideas? Even propose solutions? I know I have limitations. I’ve try look over the horizon a few to many times. It my information singularity. Drive me nuts to even gleam a hint. I’ve no doubt other can give a push is the right direction?
Even once costed out? It comes out on top with production cost. Might be possible to skirt under £300 with the right components? That for small scale industrial units? Which would be pretty cheap? Might be cheaper for more portable pocket sized version? Which would make the concept publicly accessible?
I appreciate the input because I know it not something I can achieve alone.
Thanks Pierre for your input. just waiting on master Doug? @dougselsam I’m also wondering if we can have @teamawes tag? As a larger shout out? A call to technical experience and expertise?
As the current climate is a collective responsibility. to ensure a theirs future worth fighting for? Pink floyd comfortably numb ring through my head every Time I think if the environment and the climate? Hot ashes for tree, hot air for Cool breeze. is the line I particularly remember? We need the sum of our knowledge. or it going to be a slog for everyone? I cannot count how many have already been lost along the way? I can count the number of close friends I’ve had? that are no longer here. Who had dreams for bigger things? But sadly ended tragically. There a reason and motive to bring about new way of generating electricity. So future generations won’t have to endure as many hardships. My local community has lost so many in the last few years. Many of the reveller I used to party with haven’t faired too well. It tough out in the wider world and any chance some will join the ranks? Is slim? But not impossible? It a relay race? If we’re luck we will have some to pass it on too?
“String shooters are rope driving loops that work as much by pulling the rope as “shooting” it. The tubeless version in video is very close to simple Rope Driving.”
Just look about the mythbuster have been on the scene with a golf ball car?
According to mr savage they got a 14% improvement in fuel efficiency? So there might be some merit to the golf ball dimples? @PierreB@AweEnthusiast so it seems like texture surface can really help? There must be a correlation between dimples size, number of dimples and dimple patterns? There are a few studies in to golf ball notably Cambridge university have studies into golf balls?
So if there a chance of 14% increase over distance? It might be worth a go? It essentially a rope drive powered by the wind? There would be a lot of technical things to address but that could be sorted out with some ease?
I asked first. Stop trying to get me to do your homework. What problems does it have, based on your knowledge from wind energy or your experience? Also, it seems to be an idea, how is it a good idea or better than some alternatives?
Here is homework for you: please find something that talks about wind energy and try to summarize the main points in your own words. What variables are important?
I know it possible to make a hex tile sheet? They do regularly make them on 3D printer? You also have vortex shedding
I previously broach this with
So location are key? @Windy_Skies previously mentioned wind speed over tall buildings?
The chances are the number of components can be dramatically reduced? To a direct drive and belt? As the main components? We all might remember?
Essentially if you go down the cassette head coil route? It could be incredibly easy to do? Not only could it be cheap time will only require 5mins to set up in the field? Might require longer if attach to a building? With plug and play in mind? Easy peasy lemon squeezy!
Totally off the shelf parts too. @PierreB yes it like ladder mill in certain respects? But unlike ladder mill? this won’t need the extra kite sails. It should only need the tape and rollers and best?
The tech is out there! it just about pulling it together, get some numbers? Then cross reference that with competitors? Chances are you would undercut the the current energy sector? Big fish, little fish problems?
Effect of dimples on golf balls and cars: A Review
Olabanji Y. Shonibare December 26, 2014
Abstract
The purpose of this review is to determine the effect of dimples on the drag force on a golf ball and a car. Dimpling a golf ball and a car has reverse effects on the drag. Presence of dimples on a smooth ball causes a reduction of the total drag on a golf ball. Although no study on the effect of dimples on the drag on vehicles was found, inference were drawn from studies conducted on an airfoil (streamlined body). We discuss how an increase in surface roughness of a streamlined body leads to an increase in drag. Since most recently built cars are stream-lined, it was concluded that introducing dimples on a car would lead to an increase in drag.
A similar device but working with a box including two motorized wheels turning in the opposite direction, with the string between the wheels:
ZipString - Can you push a string?
You may have heard the saying: “You can’t push a string” It generally means that something is impossible, insurmountable, or hopeless. Because, who could push a string, RIGHT? Well, now when someone tells you, “You can’t push a string.” Pull out your ZipString, and do the impossible anyway.
@dougselsam@PierreB@Rodread@AweEnthusiast
Yes essentially Pierre that one way to do it? With the wind acting as the drive unit? As I’ve previously discussed with magnetic gears. it might be possible with this example to reduce friction? which will help with over all efficiency? I don’t thing there much modifications need to the control circuits? There would be room for dump loads? It something that size I was thinking could charge a mobile phone/ table?
The best thing is it can be an of the shelf assembly?
A driven roller is clamped to a driving roller, or both can be driving, some distance from that is a second such unit. Between them is a drum that holds your rope drive. Between the drum and both of the roller units there is an installation where you attach and detach the kite tethers to the loop. To start, after you’ve wrapped the loop in the way that it should, you add kite tethers to the loop as the loop unwinds. The kites need to be flying crosswind to have it make any sense for energy production, but don’t need to for first testing of this ground station. The drum has a protrusion in the middle. To wrap the loop around the drum again, you let the loop catch on this protrusion and rotate the drum. Power is generated by the two, or four, or more, to reduce needed clamping force and with that tether wear, driving pulleys.
The two pulleys in a unit are clamped together by some spring mechanism, which both needs to be strong enough to clamp on the tether strongly enough, but also allow the pod that connects the kite tether to the loop through.
As the kites need to fly crosswind at high speed, I think they should fly in circles around the loop, which seems to necessitate a robust pod design.
Just in case anyone didn’t comprehend the meaning of my post, please let me clarify. The two passages below, encapsulate the theme of the abstract: Dimples do NOT reduce drag on streamlined bodies.
The only reason they reduce drag on a golf ball is they reduce the area of vacuum behind the golf ball. That is because, being round in shape, a ball is not very streamlined, and so has a lot of drag (vacuum) on the back side. The dimples serve to delay separation of the boundary layer from the surface, thereby reducing the area of vacuum behind the ball. Otherwise, for most reasonably-streamlined shapes, such as a car. dimples add roughness, which adds drag.
So there’s the difference that
A string shooter accelerates the loop at the bend - low near ground - using driven wheels (or high speed blast of air as in the intro video to this … dangerously nearly a topic
While Ladder mill accelerates the rope (downwind upward) using wind drag effect on lifting elements (kites) attached to the loop, while the loop drives wheels at the bottom junction. (never tested)
It’s been imagined in laddermill that on the rising side , soft parafoil kites are full and held by tethers lower down the line like normal kites, until the weight and drag of collapsed return side kites pulls the topmost kite over and thus leading it’s topside into wind and collapsing onto the line loop heading downward.
At the bottom they head into a sympathetic driven system (I like this pipe elbow joint smooth guide shape here - OK… but still needs a gear or bullwheel or something) which protects and resets the kites while it retards the rising kites line
