Etc.
Emphasis mine.
Some of the parts that wouldn’t trigger moderation, but may still be more or less off-topic:
If you would like to start, or continue, a topic about the ineffectiveness or other qualities of a portion of (would be) innovators, without calling out individual people, you are free to do so. But I think that’s off-topic in the original topic. You could also ask for clarification of some or all of the concepts from the original topic, more explicitly than I do here:
The topic Quantum Mechanical/Material Analogues for Kite Systems is about some elements of theory which are not supported by any scientific literature. In a side we have generalities about Quantum physics with numerous links. In the other side we have kites as a specific field which could be replaced by another field. The connection between them is artificial. Even @JoeFaust’ and @kitefreak’ publication A brief history of kite physics makes this connection in a small part without reference to some past realization as it is a “history”. Note I mentioned said publication recently in a topic I launched then deleted because @kitefreak sent me several unsolicited mails indicating he was not happy about my presentation. In some way I am rather happy to be out off this subject, knowing that quoting some work did not constitute approval.
Dave and Joe sent numerous mails about this on the old forum. So this is not a new subject, all the more so since he is now entering a “history” without historical elements.
@Windy_Skies, I understand you wish apply moderation rules. But in this specific situation, will you continue to moderate all negative comments on this topic? Nothing will be left but Joe’s words. Indeed some comments whose mine did not follow rules. But is topic following rules in an AWE forum? I think no. It is not a forum about science fiction. At most this topic would have its place in the Lounge category.
For me to be able to determine that I would need to engage with the topic a bit I think. I am not so interested in that. I was secretly hoping maybe @Tom, @Rodread or @tallakt would take this one, their knowledge of physics is probably better than mine, for one reason.
4 people have now said something about the topic so it is at least controversial.
My working assumption has been that it’s possible that it’s a miscommunication.
This topic has been written hundreds times in the old forum.
There is no point in discussing this topic. As far as I know no one here (including the authors) has the necessary knowledge in quantum physics. This topic could only have a place in a quantum physics forum if it is accepted, which I doubt.
We can do topics like this endlessly: artificially backing AWE to nuclear physics, volcanology …
I don’t think so. It is a way to assert oneself by mimicking feigned originality.
I could not agree more. That matches my remark:
Well Windy Skies, this is part of an ongoing conversation that has been taking place over 12 years, most of which you are not aware of. Thank you for trying to provide guidance, but honestly, I see no value in what you have presented here. I don’t see any logic to it at all. If I were you I wouldn’t waste my time trying to nitpick every word of peoples’ honest attempts to post if you want an open forum. I had important things to say that I think people need to hear, and I did the best job I could, trying to acknowledge positive aspects of Joe’s post, and aspects I agree with. I do not see how your suggested substitution would improve anything. Basically the whole idea of us all sitting around talk-talk-talk-talk-talking about vague ideas for AWE is, I think, a dubious use of our time and energy. It only gets worse when we have people trying to “comment on the style of comments” Maybe you have a different style of writing than me. YOu also lack the history of 12 years of putting up with these two guys endlessly pretending they have all the answers while never getting anything useful in the air or generating any power. Bottom line is, these forums are a marginal use of our time at best. When I get messages like this it just tells me to forget even trying to participate. Better to spend my time actually doing something than trying to provide balance of someone elses post. One thing I really have to wonder about is what kind of person has the time and motivation to sit there telling other people exactly what words they should use to post? Do you really have nothing better to do with your life than nitpick people? I should probably take my own advice and not bother posting anything at all, unless and until I have something built and run that I want people to know about, so I should take my own advice and just not bother anymore, but if you had been around for the last 12 years of this ongoing conversation, you’d find I’ve been right about most things and have flagged the projects that would eventually fail years ahead of the fact. These guys never fail at anything because they never try much of anything except mostly just occasionally flying kites, and profusely posting stuff on the internet. I should probably not even bother posting anyway. I mean, really, who is there to hear any of what I say anyway? If a tree fell in the forest, and nobody was there to hear it, then the tree was wasting its time. Have fun. 
Yeah.
Windy_Skies, would you consider clarifying by what you mean by “Yeah” with respect to Doug’s paragraph? TIA I do not seem to get what you meant by that one-word reply. Are you affirming a “yes” to all the statements in his long paragraph?
A note about one of his sentences:
It is not clear if Doug was referring to DaveS and JoeF with his:
"These guys never fail at anything because they never try much of anything except mostly just occasionally flying kites, and profusely posting stuff on the internet." If he was directing his statement toward Dave and myself, then I state the following:
Doug has been given profuse evidence that DaveS flies AWES experiments almost daily through the year; Dave records lessons and shares robustly about the experiments. Doug has many times been given the link to a teasing portion of Dave’s drawing log: about 800 pages just up to 2009; Dave has not stopped his profuse AWE experimentation following 2009 to now. Drachen Foundation is steward of the original copy of that 2009 lot of pages of Dave’s AWE drawing log. Dave is an expert builder-maker.
For myself, I attest that I fly experiments with energy kite systems daily; We fail super amount because we deliberately test the edges of concepts that concern us.
It puzzles me deeply why DaveS’ radiance is shunted on your forum, especially since you many times mention “applied science” for the forum. He tries and fails and succeeds in AWE experiments more than anyone I know. Please inform me of someone that does more variety in AWE experiments than does Dave Santos; TIA.
See Questions and complaints about moderation + unlisted, mostly unmoderated, free discussion - #569 by Windy_Skies Or if you’d like to spend more time reading, you could start from this comment
I am agreeing with the part of his post that I quoted. I am ignoring the context of the quote. In that post I am silent about anything else. I don’t, or rarely, moderate this hidden topic. It’s also a joke.
Don’t confuse the person with the job. I’m just stuck with cleaning duty. Talk one of these other slackers into moderating more if you want a different person to complain about.
People who understand wind energy have always seen a persistent presence of people from outside the knowledge base who nonetheless pretend they have a better way, while being unable to demonstrate a better way. These outsiders’ pronouncements usually fall into very typical, well-worn categories, like seeing a sign wiggling, thinking that must be “the answer”, then going on to denigrate existing useful wind energy systems and the people who design them, attempting to bask in the glory of their self-perceived superior knowledge and understanding, which, in fact, does not exist. You two are the most exaggerated version of this I’ve ever seen, by possibly orders of magnitude. There is no adult conversation even possible. Look, Joe, in real wind energy, the first thing anyone will ask for in a new system is a power-curve, or some data indicating a system at any scale shows usefulness, or if it is a research prototype, favorable data pointing toward useful output with further refinement. That’s how real wind people operate. They don’t spend a lot of time bragging about their “expert” status, or insisting that years of messing around with no significant power output, getting something to briefly wiggle, etc., is significant. If you or Santos have some data to show us after a combined quarter-century of empty talk about being at some mythical forefront of wind energy research, then that would be the way to be taken seriously. Otherwise, there is no “there” there - nothing to take the least bit seriously. Your profusion of confusion in the form of poetry may impress some people, but it will not keep anyone’s lights on. There is a simple measuring tool for energy and that is a power meter. Instead you guys talk of maybe charging a cell phone a decade ago and even then there is no real indication you even charged a phone versus just thinking you may have charged a phone. You have to realize there are actual grownups running the wind energy business, plenty of households, farms, and businesses powered by wind energy, and you guys are, sorry to say, just not “players” in the field, by any standards. It’s like talking to children. There’s just nothing “there” to even comment on. Any “progress” is just in your combined imagination. If you want to be taken seriously in wind energy, you have to make an impact - not just with empty musings, but making some power. The very fact that someone has to say this after this many years shows there is really no point in further discussions about it. If you guys think you are doing wind energy, well that is your fantasy. Pointing at an airplane flying over and claiming it as some sort of accomplishment that of course they take winds into account when planning their route is not contributing anything. As usual, any discussion of wind energy with either of you seems like a complete waste of time. I like you, and that is fine, it;s just that you guys are not in the actual field of wind energy in any way and really don;t seem to even comprehend any basic aspect of it, so really, no matter how much poetry you attempt to substitute for progress, the “discussion” is really a whole lot of nothing. Why am I even trying to explain anything at this point? OMG I got stuff to do, sorry, gotta go.
This whole scenario is a joke. Hiding the only “topic” here that pertains to you (moderation) is a joke. People off the rails to the point of actually claiming wind energy suffers from an over-reliance on power meters (Santos) is a joke. It’s like saying the transportation industry suffers from an over-reliance on odometers. Having a forum where you delete factual material or even just peoples’ opinions is a joke. Thinking you know better than people posting, and nitpicking what they write is a joke. This whole field is a joke, in the sense that, as I often point out, wind energy is a magnet for crackpots and airborne wind energy is a neodymium supermagnet. I say if you know so much better than everyone else to nitpick every word, then, like I just said to Joe, show us your power curve. Posting on the internet, or nitpicking other peoples’ posts, is not wind energy, it’s just talk.
No actually it was some version of top AWE researcher you were claiming to be, many years ago, and it was, I believe, triggered by a similar claim I had jokingly made to you, somewhat in jest, really sarcastically imitating your profusion of such bragging statements, but also just a teeny bit seriously, with a hint of fact behind it, considering I did and still do have more types of wind turbine patented than anyone in the world, I have been funded by the government for wind energy research (SuperTurbineTM), I have produced data, I did show up with a working system at the first HAWP conference, I do operate from a wind-powered facility, I was already getting awards and famous for my AWE systems, being invited by kings and sultans to set up shop in their countries, even before the first HAWP conference, and that I have shown how to simply spin the tether of a kite or LTA apparatus to make power in the sky and get it back to Earth, which is among the simplest AWE concepts ever discussed, let alone built and run, etc., etc., etc. Nevertheless I would never bother making such a claim except to try to expose the absurdity of our conversations.
What do you do? You claim power meters are irrelevant. You finally fly a kite back-and-forth pulling a rope through pulleys, promise to add a generator, saying we’ll be surprised at what we see, then never add the generator, and deny ever saying you would, after 10 years of claiming to have done meaningful research, while never producing any significant power the whole time. You’ve always got some very lame excuse why you can’t generate power or measure it, symptomatic of extreme crackpots in wind energy. Meanwhile we just saw someone had actually done what you said you would do, using two pulleys and a generator driven by a bicycle wheel in 2018, showed power generated, and it was very simple for them to accomplish, while you just produce empty talk, empty promises, and Joe defends you and parrots your empty claims of doing any actual AWE. Again, I did say I was sorry for saying you had measured even current one time. Of course that would violate everything you stand for, which is making no power while claiming to be a top wind energy researcher.
kPower
Doesn’t seem useful or harmful. :shrug:
Doug,
I think @JoeFaust and @kitefreak do not want produce any electricity. As visionaries they know that current wind energy disrupts the electrical network due to their intermittence, and probably prefer piloted energies such as nuclear and fossils. At the beginning and still now quantum physics is linked to the infinitely small (but not only), when classical physics is no longer able to account for measurements. Therefore they intend to develop an AWE system which can produce infinitesimal quantities of electricity. There is no doubt that they are on the right track and that they will succeed.
Perhaps you will think differently when you appreciate the fact: I, for one, do want to produce electricity at GW levels for feeding electrical grids to serve human needs. Now that you know the fact of what I want, then you could choose to radiate that fact when you feel moved to comment about what I want as regards production of electricity. You could choose now forward to think the fact. However, perhaps you will believe otherwise forever; that is up to your belief mechanisms. I will let DaveS speak for himself on what he wants concerning harvesting energy to transform into electricity.
I like your “(but not only)” as that opens a huge door for galactic-sized AWES exploration while retaining guides and analogues from quantum physics. Good, PierreB!
It is a good idea to solve takeoff and landing.
Some galactic-sized AWES may not need any “landing” or “takeoff” as they most likely will be built in place and operate without those two operations. However, decommissioning by moving part of the AWES into a large black hole that would finish the job at an appropriate time. Thanks for the synergy, Pierre! Dyson may have addressed some of these matters, though it may have only considered the relatively smallish star-sized challenges of energy harvesting…
The real dynamic here is these two can’t seem to get anything working to produce even a symbolic level of power, yet are such big fans of the idea of AWE that their urge to participate in AWE far outweighs their apparent ability. Brainstorming is great if it leads somewhere. They just forgot about the “leads somewhere” part. Their brains seem to be functioning like an engine with no transmission. All they can do is REV REV REV their mental “engine” but it never connects to anything real. They don’t seem even able to “spin their wheels” or “burn rubber”. It reminds me of insane people who fixate on imaginary things, which is why I suspect toxoplasmosis, a parasite which rewires the brain might be at play - who knows. The whole “quantum” thing is, maybe unknown to them, just one more excuse for being unable to master the art of generating electricity. Santos is the only one I’ve ever heard claiming to target GigaWatts, when he insists on the idea of somehow spinning the generators of existing nuclear power plants using power-kites.
Yeah, sure Dave. Be sure to get back to us when you’ve got that working (ahem).
But if you just remember all the crazy stuff he says, there is no limit to the absurdity. What about the kite networks above New York City staffed by human “sky monkeys” climbing around on nets? What about his future AWE power systems that will require human pilots that will stay on duty “for the honor”? What energy industry has people working it for the honor? Not too many. At some point if people are doing something useful they want to get paid so they can have a place to live and raise a family etc. What about his future project where the “Moab Sky Monkeys” climb around on his kite networks? What happened to that? More Santos imaginary vaporware. Of everything he has said he will do regarding generating power or even just hosting a concert, none of it has ever come true. It seems to me there is no absolute reason he could not get something going. The “quantum” thing is just the next desperate step. They pick a topic that even the experts agree nobody really understands to buy themselves enough time and doubt to keep on pretending they have any technical acumen or useful insights to offer AWE. Since neither they nor anyone elses knows what they are even talking about, they can go on pretending. Dave can pretend he will get a tether to vibrate, but because the vibration will be “quantum” and nobody understands
quantum" he can go on blathering about his superior mastery of AWE without ever generating a Watt, and few people will bother to argue with him. Some may even be impressed. But as the saying goes, you can’t fool all of the people all of the time. If I were these guys I’d be embarrassed, but part of what the toxoplasmosis parasite does when rewiring the brain is it makes the person not care what anyone thinks of them. The purpose is to make rats unafraid of cats, therefore easy prey, favoring the cats which are its main symbiotic host. But in humans it makes people accident-prone, sloppy dressers, and unafraid of many things, such as what others think of them. I’ve noticed some hang glider pilots’ households are very cat-centric and some smell like a cat litterbox, possibly in proportion to how daring and/or accident-prone they are. Toxoplasmosis is the reason pregnant women are advised to stay away from cats - it can infect the baby. Basically, possibly unknown to even themselves, most of the endless nonsense these guys spew amounts to pretty much a fraud, if you ask me.
Joe whether you want to produce GigaWatts or not seems irrelevant considering you haven’t really generated much of anything at all yet. The very idea that you would bring up the topic is absurd. Whether you “want” to generate GigaWatts as a topic is itself absurd. You’re a million miles from even approaching a single kiloWatt. Get real! You guys are just so completely delusional, it boggles the mind. It almost hurts to think about you trying to generate any useful amount of power, yet I don’t see what’s stopping you except you guys seemingly “can’t get out of your own way.” The really strange thing to me is you even bringing up such an absurd topic, yet you seem entirely serious, as though anyone familiar with you would ever expect you to be involved with Giga-anything except maybe Giga-levels of absurdity. You seem to have the ability to type endlessly without ever actually saying anything. Very strange. I think this whole topic is retarded, and I wish Windy Skies would stop with the whole “hidden topic” thing. If I check my email I get “one more message” that this absurd conversation continues - makes me want to throw my computer in the trash!
