This is a purposely misleading statement because RWE posted these photos.
You change your version.
Prove it, that RWE wants to make a fly-off. It is only your intention.
No, he is right and I indicated the same above. You mention:
At best, they are in the works, but the job is not still done.
Everything you say are only intentionally misleading statements intended to support your thesis.
None of your so-called predictions are valid.
Pinocchio’s Lie:
Skimming the press releases very quickly, I’m not seeing some gross misrepresentation of them by Dave. And the print-screen also seems to be unedited. It doesn’t capture the entire webpage though.
I don’t have the patience to write the same thing a thousand times. See some of the discussion above for the reasoning.
To try to change your behavior, I will reset your trust level to that of a new user. That means that a moderator will need to approve every comment of yours before it shows up. I can’t speak for the other moderators, but I will use the FAQ - AWESystems Forum and my own judgement to do that. I will not approve otherwise acceptable posts that violate the FAQ in a small part of it. Mention of “idiots, idiots, idiots”, “crackpots”, and so on is an automatic refusal. If it becomes too much effort to do this, if too many of your posts violate the FAQ, I will silence your account for some time. If some time goes by without us having to reject your comments I will remove the posting restriction.
If you want to talk about how some people are idiots, I’d try to stop myself. This forum is for technical discussion. An appropriate post would talk about the technological difficulties or opportunities of different architectures, the more specific and concrete and rooted in physics the better.
This topic is not, or barely, moderated, so I will approve most posts to this topic.
Where is the evidence? What is the output? Where is the AWE system flying in regular operation, on a daily basis? Do we have video of this? What is the output? How many kWh per day does it produce? What grid is it feeding? Where are the systems you say are being installed, being installed?
Remember “The Professor Crackpot Syndrome”?
Remember the repetitive nature of the symptoms?
Remember the symptom of the first grid-feeding installation must be in a remote place, such as an island, or a remote part of Alaska?
Did Altaeros ever power the grid in Alaska? You kept saying yes, long after I had declared the whole thing a BIG LIE. You were 100% wrong. I hit the nail on the head. I know what the fuck I’m seeing when people lie., You do not. There is a saying, you can’t con an honest man. But they can con you.
How long did we listen to McBlarney promise they would be powering hundreds of homes… in Hawaii? Because it could only work in a remote location, right? Or is it something about liars and their lies that makes them always pick a remote location “because diesel is so expensive there”?
OK so now we are supposed to believe the NEXT AWE promise of powering the grid at a remote island location, right?
Does it ever occur to you that you might be watching the same pattern yet again? Does it not fit the same “Proessor Crackpot Syndrome”? It HAS to be a remote location, right? Why? So nobody can go there and tell us it is not in fact flying? So nobody can tell us the real story? Operation of a prototype is best carried out where you can work on it easily, and the price if diesel is not relevant until you have something working well enough to run it with confidence.
AWE: All accomplishments are “in the future”, and possibly could always be, unless I get off my ass - er um I man stop skiing every day, and make it happen.
Doug is mistaken, unable to prove any accusation by copying original records. All my Old Forum messages are preserved. I never said “yes” to any Altaeros grid-tie. No one did. I severely criticized Altaeros, the record will forever show.
Doug cannot prove SkySails is lying. Let time tell if they are. Its ok to take them at their word until proven otherwise. Same with Minesto, now in pilot operation. Kite based energy really is happening. The loudest critics were wrong.
Let Doug show the ST advancing with the leaders, or explain the delay. We are patient.
The unedited print-screen does not add anything new excepted the capture of the two photos together on another webpage of RWE website. I already provided these two photos in two separate links within their respective texts.
That said the misrepresentation is subtle enough, with Dave wanting to suggest later that RWE would go for a fly-off (comparison between SkySails flexible wing and Ampyx rigid wing) just like him. But nothing indicates this. It obviously takes a certain subtlety to understand such a misrepresentation. I have explained the mechanism by following his messages just previously.
That so many inaccuracies find such echo in the tiny world of AWE is not a sign of something moving forward. We would prefer to comment on the technical aspect of the AWE projects and a real production of electricity rather than these perpetual willful inaccuracies.
Nothing wrong with posting a link someone posted previously and giving your own comments on it.
The press releases talk about pilot projects of the two technologies " to deliver important insights into innovative technology" That is close enough to Dave’s, "essentially/effectively " (not exactly) a fly off.
No source for claim given.
A definition for “operational” is “in or ready for use”.
I think Doug said “in operation”, not “operational”.
I think we would have known if the system was operational or in operation, as the company would tell us about it. From the press release:
“I am delighted that we are putting this innovative, environmentally friendly technology into operation for the first time,” says Katja Wünschel, COO Wind Onshore & Photovoltaic Europe & Asia-Pacific at RWE Renewables.
No source for claim given. Note the claim of multiple clients, and the “now installing”. The press release talks about a single partner, and that they are still assessing suitable locations, and that they are putting the technology into operation for the first time.
The press releases sound positive to me and look like progress.
@dougselsam 's quote comes from the current topic which is unlisted and unmoderated as its title indicates. So resetting his trust level to that of a new user is violating the mentioned FAQ which concerns public comments. And that @Rodread as moderator approves that bodes ill for the future.
Now if we quote Doug’s last moderated comment we don’t see any insults:
There was no matter for doing moderation. Doug points the lack of basic knowledge in wind energy. On the contrary, his answer, because it is not detailed, prompts us to reflect and try to find a way towards a better knowledge of wind energy. I am therefore also concerned and encouraged to better understand the bases of this energy.
But here, like for the old forum, the moderators consider themselves untouchable, not accepting any questioning. Again this bodes ill for the future.
Now about a minor point:
It is easy to understand that in this context: “to deliver important insights into innovative technology” and “RWE is effectively conducting a Flyoff between SkySails and Ampyx.” are quite different things. Actually I don’t see any flyoff (so a comparison between SkySails flexible and Ampyx rigid kites) from RWE. Both technologies are described, not compared. For the rest (concerning also Dave’s predictions) this has already been noted.
Pierre is free to imagine that RWE has invested in both a soft-kite (SkySails) and rigid wing (Ampyx) AWES developer, featuring them side by side, but does not intend any direct comparison that constitutes a fly-off. He seems to think more cries by Doug of “idiots” and “crackpots” are needed, and that confused concerns, like over non-existent editing, or “lies” never proven, are more relevant.
AWE is not about “idiots” and “crackpots”, nor Moderation controversies, nor ignorant angry impotent paranoia than no one is producing any power, and no one ever will.
The path to AWE has been blessed with incredible Genius since ancient times; like MoTzu and Lu Ban. Polynesians crossed oceans with kites, even harvested water from clouds. Ben Franklin pulled himself across a pond and found the experience profound. Pocock developed a horseless kite buggy that beat the carriages if his time. Etzler envisioned civilization powered by kites. Coby, Baden-Powell, and others, figured out how to sojourn in the sky with renewable wind energy. Incredible new wings were created by Jalbert, the Rogallos, the Merries, Culp, Lynn, and so on. Payne, McCutchen, Goela, Loyd, Faust, German, the Roeselers, McCready, Hadzicki, and so many other Geniuses, added tremendous insight and knowledge to AWE. This is our golden inheritance.
Wubbo Lives!
Please don’t assume that I nor anyone sane has time to read the rubbish in this thread @PierreB
It’s not worth it.
For everyone’s sake, I advise you all to leave this thread alone and if you have genuine interesting content on genuine interesting AWES topics, post it on the actual public part of the forum.
The decision has little or nothing to do with Doug’s posting in this topic. This topic is wholly or largely unmoderated, as I thought it might be a good idea to allow unfiltered feedback in this feedback topic.
We have an idea about what we like to see in this forum, being mostly technical discussion of different architectures, and being mostly not soapboxing and arguing about the character of people for example. I belatedly decided to try to do something about it.
Wrong.
So far it has been almost 100% idiots, crackpots, and liars, from a standpoint of having some experience in wind energy, the statements made, the contrast with results, and the veracity of the promises.
My posts have been deleted here.
Saying this thread is unmoderated was a blatant lie.
It’s just more of the same.
More idiots.
Doug,
Learn to keep back-up copies of your posts. Send them to Joe to archive. That’s where most of your posts live on. If you don’t yet know anyone in kites you approve of, keep looking. They are great folks on the whole. Kites are wind energy too.
Rod: (Concerned about) “time to read the rubbish in this thread”
This thread is for future historical mining, not entertainment. Its not all rubbish, I put some of my best stuff here, that Windy is unable to mess with in public. Where else would Moderation learn the US DOE is preparing a public AWE Report to the US Congress, due by June? Moderators need this last place of equality, to not go blind.
This thread is in fact heavily Moderated, despite the Topic claim. We are not even allowed to edit, and forced to wait for stupidly-timed access. I add Lilienthal and the Wright Bros to this paragraph above-
The path to AWE is blessed with incredible Genius since ancient times; when MoTzu and Lu Ban lived. Polynesians crossed oceans with kites, even harvested water from clouds. Ben Franklin pulled himself across a pond and found the experience profound. Pocock developed a horseless kite buggy that beat horse carriages. Etzler envisioned civilization powered by kites. Coby, Baden-Powell, Lilienthal, the Wright Bros, and others, figured out how to sojourn in the sky with renewable wind energy. Incredible new wings were created by Jalbert, the Rogallos, the Merries, Culp, Lynn, and so on. Payne, McCutchen, Goela, Loyd, Faust, German, the Roeselers, McCready, Hadzicki, and so many other Geniuses, added tremendous insight and knowledge to AWE. This is our golden inheritance.
Wubbo Lives!
PS It can’t be all “rubbish” here to Rod, with this included-
This is diametrically contradicted by the recent post relying on the “offending” quote which comes from the current supposedly unmoderated topic:
In my previous comment I reflected the real motivations behind “moderating” one of Doug’s last posts, which led to his trust level being reset.
It is likely that one of the people who looked in the mirror of real motivations believed he saw “rubbish”.
No Pierre, I quoted that to reply to it. I had moved 3 posts starting with this one here, Doug complained about that, I replied. That is what this thread is for.
I’ve already explained as to why I made the decision. The comments I moved are a good example of what we don’t want to see. Now it is Doug’s job to stay on topic and hold off on the off-topic rants.
If what you are saying was true, you would have just quoted this one. You didn’t because you knew this removed comment didn’t contain any insults. @dougselsam questioned the lack of knowledge in wind power from a technically inappropriate question, prompting self-thinking, which I set out above. This is what did not like. Nothing to do with insults on the first removed comment.
After that we should not be surprised by the qualifiers that Doug can address in this circumstance.
As a result the forum will be deprived of his expertise in conventional wind energy which is severely lacking in almost all the AWE players focused mainly on aerospace issues which of course also exist.
The FAQ, and my own judgement, does not only say: no insults please!
Both his first and second comment are derailing and soapboxing, but the second uses more words to do it so it is more disruptive. This was the latest in a seemingly unending stream of them, so I decided I might take some action.
I don’t particularly like the FAQ for being so vague. I like this better, for example: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskEngineers/wiki/rules#wiki_comment_rules
Tallak is quite correct, that Wind Turbines, AWES, and Sailboats can increase wing area (“add blades”) in low winds, and in fact do. The classic Dutch Windmill fully unfurls its sails, and Sailboats change to larger sails, and Kite Sports choose a larger kite in low wind to maximize power across all wind conditions. The inverse corollary is to reduce wing are in high wind, preventing breakage and maintaining output.
Doug’s story is about wind hardware mounted on a pole, where the installer walks away, and nobody is going to dynamically change wing area. There are small turbine options for more blades installed on the same nacelle, for users with poorer wind.
If Windy was so concerned about insult, he would not be an anonymous authority publicly meddling over more senior experienced AWE people. He has not earn Trust Level 4 leader powers, as Discourse Guidelines specify. I avoid this insult by only posting here.
What you read above is wrong information, from someone with no real knowledge of wind energy. It does not matter. Nobody cares. 12 years of deleted posts in the face of idle musings by people who simply do not know the facts is enough for me. I personally know the manufacturers of the turbines that use more than 3 blades. In one case they are usable. I’ve used many of them. I usually use them in sets of 5. In the other case they are not even usable. They are so badly designed (final nail-in-the-coffin mistake was by a moldmaker who knew nothing about the subject), that manufacturer offers a turbine with 11 blades. Even using 11 blades cannot rescue the bad design. The reason for using many blades in these cases is not low winds, but the fact that the blades are poorly designed. I’m not going to give a course on wind energy here. I’ve posted a few times lately, and my posts have been 100% deleted, ironically ever since the dishonest statement that this topic was unmoderated. Seems like my posts were deleted at least in part for expressing "questions and complaints about moderation. I do not feel that I should participate in another dishonest discussion group such as this. I do not want to waste any more of my time providing factual input where it is not appreciated. As I’ve said in the past, this is like trying to warn drunken people at a party after midnight when everyone is yelling and screaming, about the dangers of alcoholism. I say let the know-it-alls bask and wallow in their own ignorance. Enjoy it. Since I believe this post also will be deleted before anyone can read it for expressing “questions and complaints about moderation”, I will cut-paste it into an e-mail to a few regulars and then I am gone, and everyone can go on believing whatever they wish, without my factual input. Have a McDay.
Windy Skies you seem to think you are really something special here.
How many Watts have you made using AWE? Let me guess… zero?
Like Santos after 12 years. And like Santos and Faust, you can’t resist trying to control what people say, and you now seem to also be prone to making untrue statements.
Didn’t you JUST FINISH TELLING US THIS TOPIC WAS UNMODERATED? I guess that was a lie, right? So what does that make you? What could have gone wrong in the head of someone who tells people they can enjoy an unmoderated private discussion, then jump in and start nitpicking what words people use and censor them more than ever before? And look at what the big online platforms do: same thing: promise one thing, deliver the exact opposite.
There is a word for people who do this. I believe it must be some sort of disorder, and it is telling how similar your behavior is to Santos and Faust, and ironic that Santos denies the similarity.
Everything I’ve said over the years has been 100% true.
Which is why people like you and the Santos and JoeF, with nothing technical to contribute to AWE, like to try to silence such factual input.
You fit the exact same pattern as Santos and JoeF:
In all cases there is no fairness, but instead deception and an urge to control everyone, rather than allow free communication.
Pathetic liars who cannot bear to have anyone speak the simple truth. If we note the statements of the very biggest AWE players are not accurate, we should not be allowed to express this thought, right? We should have facts argued with and shot down, and eventually deleted, right? For what gain?
Now Santos lies, lies, and lies again, claiming there was no censorship on the old forum? When my experience of it was ten years+ of censorship as the main theme? And he can say it with a straight face?
Ten years of people calling him a liar and Joe deleting their messages?
And you, you can push the people telling the truth, a truthful discussion, into a secret, hidden corner, so it is not visible in your forum IN ANY WAY, and SAY IT IS NOT MODERATED, and now, with only 3 or 4 people even reading it, you CAN’T STOP YOURSELF FROM MODERATING IT IN MORE WAYS THAN I’VE EVER SEEN!?!?!?
Windy Kies you, like Santos, ARE PATHETIC.
My opinion? People like you are ruining the promise of the internet!
What was it, 8 hours between posts? WHY?
Dictating what words people can use - people who have been 100% right since long before you had any notion of the topic at hand? And we’re supposed to take you seriously?
How many hours is it today? Who ever heard of such a thing?
For a topic nobody can even read?
(topics - geez! people like you and Santos are fixated on complete control of every word anyone says, and one of your favorite collective “reasons” to delete messages is whether you think they are in the right topic?)
For a place YOU SAID WAS NOT MODERATED?
THAT was simply a lie!
Congratulations on revealing one more example of a new “syndrome”.
I guess that makes you just one more liar!
Beyond the Professor Crackpot Syndrome, where a hundred people are hired to fail at a project that could have been accomplished with just a few people, I think we’ve got a NEW Syndrome:
The lying control-freak moderator syndrome.
It’s mostly what AWE has been over the years, lies and lying control-freak moderators running discussion boards, trying to prevent anyone exposing the lies…
Your poor behavior is not appreciated, JUST LIKE SANTOS _ SAME SHIZZLE, DIFFERENT DAY.
, so you spend your days trying to make sure nobody can express accurate opinions, while you LIE about something being unmoderated then try to moderate it anyway? That is the same problem Santos and Faust had so I say it is a syndrome.
Do you have any regard for the truth whatsoever? DO you realize how ridiculous you look?
