If I am not wrong, there is no reference or analysis about the rotating reel system on the paper you provide.
The thrust bearing you mention implies another architecture like on
Indeed a thrust bearing could work with a rim driven turbine.
Another possibility is using a thrust bearing with a tilted ring, but that adds material.
The problems you mention are solved by very simple means that are not yet disclosed.
You’re on Page 25 Pierre.
The problem I have with the video above is the asymmetry of ring compression or tension brought on by the Power Take Off Bouy. The outer ring will be being crushed as it approaches the PTO. And need to drive strongly upward after it leaves. So it needs to be a strong ring close to the ground with really well controlled drive kites.
A simple solution to the reeling power problem has been disclosed where the opposing lines drive each other with the x line drive coupling releasing kites comping toward the upwind side matched to the needs of reeling in on their opposing downwind going point.
You guessed well! It is a very simple solution I tested some years ago and it works well. The patent covers this variant without describing it as the main principles are the same.
Thanks for the page 25, but the reference of the chapter is missing.
The device on the video is very different. I quoted it only to evoke the thrust bearing. Let us imagine that the wheelwind is the tilted ring and is connected to the ground ring with a thrust bearing: it is a far heavier solution than rotating reel.
The other simple reeling solution is a fixing a rotary tether reeling hub near the upwind inside edge of the ground ring and letting the tethers run through pulleys on the ground ring
It could still be a floating device if necessary as per that really old vid of a floating Daisy offshore (but more real looking)
All this has been studied and tested.
Perhaps using hydro turbines within an hydro-carousel system which can be a Daisy or Rotating Reel system:hydro-carousel-figure-eight-rotating reel-Daisy.pdf (156.9 KB)
A variation of “rotating” reeling is kPower’s anchor circle with anchor pulleys or reels that equalize cross-circle phase relations as wind direction is what rotates around the circle.
What the heck are you talking about? Just because people want to slowly reinvent SuperTurbine™ doesn’t mean they are “inventing” what is already in my original patent 6616402. There are so many examples of stacked rotor kite power in that patent. Just scroll through the illustrations. Look at Figs. 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, as just a few examples. Is everyone in this field completely insne?
My immediately previous post was in response to Roddy’s comment many posts earlier about who invented a multiple layer stacked rotor power kite. I had highlighted Roddy’s comment, but it didn’t “take” into my comment. Well now that I think of it - what about Rudy Harburg? Maybe his prior art also qualifies. I guess it comes down to what your definition of a stacked rotor kite is.
The rotating reel system is not about a stacked rotor as such (even as it can be implemented) but concerns the rope transmission system that connects the flying rotor to the ground rotor. As the flying rotor is tilted ropes lengths vary during rotation.
The rotating reel system is studied to allow implementing wider rotors. It is a sort of carousel but with a rotor in direct transmission instead of several kites flying by figure-eight.
I think inventing concerns the transmission system, not the stacked rotor taken alone: SuperTurbine ™ with the central shaft, Daisy with rotor expansion and tether tension, rotating reel with the horizontal ground rotor and the ropes lengths variations.
I don’t understand. Please can you explain and/or provide a sketch? Thanks.
Pierre, Anchor-Circle sketches are in the archives, in many variations covered in forum posts. Just recall 12 dots in a circle like a clock face. Those are the anchors. A reel or pulley is at every anchor. Surface lines cross-connect pulleys as needed to equalize tension or tap power.
As the wind veers the reels or pulleys tilt the kite layers to accept wind from any direction. Wind veering alone is the rotation basis, rather than a rotary track or carousel. Galilean Relativity equivalence.
kPower tested many anchor-circle methods at kFarm. They were shown effective. The original “looping-kite-under-a-pilot-kite” AWES demo tilted with respect to the wind by the same principle, while also extracting power. You added a rotating platform to this mechanism.
Dave, I see better know. Indeed Anchor-Circle systems are described, for isotopic kite as example. I tested it recently, but there is no rotation, only traction. Reels or pulleys “equalize tension”. Is it right?
At kFarm, to match wind direction with Mothra1, the idea was to rotate the rig by paying out the upwind anchor downwind to help haul the downwind anchor upwind, to maintain crosswind position. This avoided need for powerful winching and was done simply by cross-linking with line across the anchor circle.
In terms of scaling Rotating Reel System by implementation on floating structures,
I really like the idea @PierreB posts with generation by turbine in water
… However, I think it’s more suited to long linear travel.
Somebody in AWES had a scheme for ammonia generation on ocean crossing tankers powered by kite travel with a waterborne turbine? I like that.
If the constant reeling of Rotating Reeling System is a bother…
This may be an applicable way to scale and align the ground plane axis to the rotor plane axis…
In my naive design, I considered a bent kite rotor stack in my drawings… doh … yet … saving grace… it is on a wide diameter floating cone structure which more matches the high torque demand of wide ring rotor systems, Whilst maintaining the alignment of rotor axis with PTO axis. The generator idea is way too heavy to scale. At least the generator was spread out and not impinging on 1 point of the rotor.
Large floating anchored rings are very common here as fishfarm structures.
To assist descriptions of particular configurations,… there are loads of videos available on my Youtube account. A link on this forum can aid quick discussion of relative system differences.
https://www.youtube.com/user/roddyread/videos?view=0&sort=da&flow=grid&view_as=subscriber
There are a lot of “Mothra” (A multi kite arch network or Kixel kite-pixel arch kite design) with various PTO concepts discussed
and tensile ring mount designs done with Open source hardware licensing. These were produced variously by myself or on behalf of members of the yahoo forum as was at the time including K-Power.
They’re none of them perfect, but you may find a quick visual concept link helpful. Please state their inadequacies…
In Daisy configuration the turbines dive during the rotation, involving a control of ballasts tanks, otherwise the density of the hydro-turbines-ring should be the same as the water density.
In Rotating Reel configuration all the ring is floating, with also a possibility for the ring (not the hydro turbines) to rise above water with foils in order to save a part of the hydro drag. In the other hand the ring can dive a little due to the kite force, but at least it is not necessary to vary its density as it is always floating, and the risk of damage is lesser.
I really like this idea too
If we use a tilted hydro-turbines-ring the pressure will be higher in deeper water, so the floating capacity can vary during the rotation. An adequate control should be required.