Slow Chat

W&I have been working on designing Giant Kite structures and the most massive component of those kite structures which will ever be used has now been completed, The component has been developed in stealth mode. Most remarkably you have probably already seen a part of it used in a test without even noticing.
Here at W&I we have been working on the most massive kite structure that will ever be made, on Earth.

Enough cheesy marketing - The giant component - That’s the Earth itself.
The vital 6,371 km radius part holding the bottom of kite lines against aerodynamic forces. Without that component - nothing. No kitey.

But we are missing some tricks here.
The earth isn’t just one massively oversized 5.972 × 10²⁴ kg anchor point to one kite. It’s all the anchor mass to all kites.

If we need to anchor a giant network of kites, with multiple anchors across a field, or across a whole farm or even across a district… That anchor mass is already there. Waiting to be used, doing not much but sustaining an eco system as best it can.
This giant anchor mass holds individual anchors fixed rigidly in place relative to the other anchor points.
Not only that, but it is massive and rigid enough to hold all of these anchors against any movement in any direction away from the point where they are fixed.
2 anchors pulling toward each other - they are stuck fixed.
2 anchors pulling away from each other -stuck fixed.
200 random anchors - stuck fixed.

Do not negate the significance of the massive component available to your kite designs.
It gives AWES designers a lot of freedom to design using the Earth as a component.

Thank you for reminding us planet Earth exists, Rod.

Just as long as everyone knows I invented it.

Seriously though - it’s an important point.
Earth :earth_africa: exists, and
It’s massive, and
What happens on one side can influence what happens the other side.
Why don’t >90% of AWES designs use that idea?

A house doesn’t suddenly move 1km West when the wind changes. Neither should a whole village. Nor a wind turbine. Neither should an AWES. We just ain’t that special folks.

ps. I didn’t actually invent the world.

I realise the comic framing isn’t going to be to everyone’s liking…
But I think the concept is big enough to deserve its own thread. Not get buried here in slow chat.

Please feel free to suggest a new way to frame the importance of spread anchor system, fixed operating zone, low deviation AWES

Maybe the easiest way would have been to shift the post to the topic of Network Kites instead @Windy_Skies
Or maybe just ask around before shifting folks posts.
We are a community

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I don’t have a database of where people’s posts should go so it goes here most often. Too much trouble and time to ask beforehand. We need more and more patient moderators for that.

Then try again. Use a descriptive title, which this didn’t have, and try to lay out the benefits [1] of what you want to discuss, which you didn’t seem to do. It looks like a thing that has been talked about before so maybe there are previous threads or studies you can find to link to, or attach the new post to.

[1] Ideally also drawbacks as a balanced discussion is better and has less chance of looking like propaganda.

Wow slow chat exploded! Venn diagram eat your heart out. Gone for a day or two. And it went mad. Any oh!

Was going to ask if awes had its own version of heliostats?
With a ground based focal point? More a pint of curiosity Than anything else. I’ve been hearing lot about molten driving steam production. wondering if anyone had heard something similar? Considering mirrors prism and lenses have been around for generations. most the optics is fairly advanced. Even fibre optics could come into somewhere? Didn’t know if that was something being explored in awes? I know by my reckoning it would be zero emissions. Once installed. But have no idea how it would get there? Just going to throw it out there and see what comes back with the boomerang.

I don’t know if you allude to Advanced Kite Networks, but this method is based on multi-anchored rig, where earth works like a spar and could allow to scale more, by stiffening the AWES but at ground level, without having to bear a heavy weight at altitude.

I have in reserve some patterns using the earth and multi-anchoring.

I suggest you remake this interesting topic by beginning with Earth (with the funny shape you given), pursuing with earth (without capital letter) to go towards technical features.

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Yes this whole topic sounds like daveS, once again revealing his genius for the elucidation of the rest of us unthinking peons… Nobody had previously ever thought of multiple anchors. Nobody knew the Earth existed. Amazing how the level of thinking in AWE has evolved over 15 years. Gosh - Earth… makes me want to just go out and take a walk! :slight_smile:

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I just saw “People will die if AWE R&D continues to delay optimal research design by not planning a Technically Knowledgable Experts-moderated “Fraunhofer” Fly-Off.” on a closed topic.
OK so now of we don;t have “a flyoff”, people are going to die.
Nevermind that I’ve been saying for 14 years of this “flyoff” talk that we ALREADY HAVE A FLYOFF that has been going on for 14 years and all you have to do is show us your device on video with a power meter and you can enter the flyoff! But the same person who has insisted on a flyoff for 14 years refuses to produce or measure any electrical output or output of any measurable kind. So this is just more posturing, more pretending to have a power-producing device, more nonsense.

That is precisely where you miss it, @dougselsam
In a competition, there must be some level playing ground, rules, and competent, impartial referees or jurors. Funding is a key advantage in proving the merits or demerits of any chosen course. We have seen funded concepts fail miserably while those who had opposed those concepts and even walked away from them out of conviction never got funded. AWE today is looking at the MW scale to be certain and it will be nice to know of any willing funder of some contest of sorts amongst competing firms. For example how much would a 5MW AWE Power Station cost or should cost for maximum efficiency and safety? Can this be guaranteed for entrants or eventual winners and what percentage would be availed prior to the contest as a minimum participating allowance itself to help fund preparations?
Who prepares the broad terms of reference and specific terms for different archetypes?

Hi John: A biblical reference, and a slogan about “lift” - par for the course.
Remember, in AWE, all achievements are in the future - and always will be!
We’ll be watching for the electrical output numbers - a week huh? Let’s all hold our breath!

Dear @dougselsam
I took some literature lessons in high school. There’s something called figurative speech if my memory serves me right. Not all speeches are literal, nor writings either.
Thanks, DougS; for your warm welcome in a truly peculiar style.
Ever read Daniel9:27 - "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. "(KJV)

@PierreB, @Windy_Skies
Is it possible for an author to edit an old post of his?
Thanks.

On the bottom right of every comment there is the reply button. If you look at a comment of yourself, next to that is a pencil icon. Click on that to edit a comment. There is a time limit to that of, I think, several months. If you would like to edit the title of a topic, click on the pencil next to the title.

John: As far as I am aware, this group is mostly about wind energy. If you or Santos ever has anything relevant to wind energy, I’ll be waiting to hear all about it. No, more bible verses won’t suffice. Send us some video with power output on a meter. :slight_smile:

Not just wind energy but AIrborneWind Energy. Tethered Aviation or Applied Aeronautics but not plain mechanics or mere electronics.

Thanks, I just checked. My post of a few days now seems to have lost the edit tab.
Comments of today still do.

You should be able to now.

John with all respect to both of you, in wind energy, whether airborne or otherwise, the standard is measuring output. No need for more empty talk of a “fly-off”. How about just fly it and show the world what you’ve got. The flyoff theme is just one more diversion - one more attempt to derail the conversation into excuse-land with more empty bragging and false promises of future “TeraWatts”…
A scatter-plot of output vs wind speed, with a power curve, is an example. That’s pretty much the standard. Measured cumulative energy output over time is another key piece of data. Even a single measurement of peak power, or just a simple video, showing your rig in operation, and showing a power-meter, or separate meters showing voltage and amps, is what any valid assessment would require, just as a start. Showing us some pieces of cloth laying on the ground and picking out bible verses is about as far from any sort of wind energy as it gets.

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Hi Doug, in wind energy, the only gear that has proven itself in the industry and the market is 3-bladed HAWT like on:

Now this forum is about airborne wind energy. I have a question: what would be the kite area needed to support an utility-scale HAWT into the air? To give you an idea it takes 4 m² to lift a Kiwee turbine producing 200 W at 10 m/s wind speed. And this turbine is ultra-light (less than 1 kg), much lighter than the equally small wind turbines on the market. It is likely that a kite with the same surface area would produce much more in reeling mode.

Hi Pierre: Are you saying all the hype around factories manufacturing and shipping out AWE systems, and the same companies supposedly operating these systems (I guess operation of the systems comes free with purchase?) is not true? That it isn’t really happening? What about all the vertical-axis turbines we keep hearing about? They’re no good? Would people really put millions of dollars to work where it can do no good? Are the “Professor Crackpots” of the world, and the people who listen to them, just plain wrong? Geez, what can we do about it? try to expose them? :slight_smile: