This is an interesting study for some means to scale. I think @Rodread more or less uses this method for his rotary device by implementing rings and rotors scaling up from the bottom (where the generator is settled) and the top (before the lifter kite). Another example of rotary device is given below, coming from the old forum:
Donât kid yourself, Tallak. What you see is DaveS (KiteFreak), with his latest fixation theme, âJalbertâ, posting on Johnâs account. Going through his typical paralysis-by-analysis musings that will likely lead nowhere.
It;s OK with me - I don;t see any reason to comment on it beyond noting who is really posting here. As long as everyone is having fun, that;s the main thingâŚ
I was thinking I should not act so dismissive of this off-balance, flailing kite operating a bicycle pump. I had asked for âsomething that worksâ, and this does indeed work. And it seems original, as in, you donât see that every day.
However, I also donât want to go to far toward actually promoting what was presented in that video. Reason? Well, just as letting your kite pull itself up out of the sand ballast you had piled upon it, thereby briefly and sequentially lifting some of the sand, which would be expected, does not amount to a useful excavation device, or a new clean energy solution for the world, the twirling kite operating a bicycle pump is not a way to power the electric grid.
We donât know if the pump was actually pumping air into a tank, or if the tank was actually pressurized, since you canât read the meters in the video. More likely, the tank was relatively empty, so the pump was free to operate without much resistance.
And obviously there was no electricity being generated, even though one could claim that compressed air could eventually power a generator, or be used to power compressed-air tools, etc.
So, while we shouldnât throw the baby out with the bathwater, it is a way to use a kite to produce some power. It looks closer to a high-school-level science-fair project than an elementary school project, but however crude, it is a start.
Since electricity has become the standard power source, thatâs usually what wind and solar are used for, and remember, weâre supposed to be replacing all those dreaded âwindtowersâ.
I would say though, it is a âhalf-bakedâ concept - not sufficiently demonstrated to get most people too excited, and obviously no electricity was generated, which is what the world is so eagerly awaiting. And reciprocating action of any kind can be problematic with regard to longevity, considering material wear and fatigue.
So it does demonstrate the beginnings of a principle - there is some power being provided by a kite, so that checks a box. I would only say that, rather than discarding the idea out of hand, Iâd say it should be developed further, if someone is truly interesting in pursuing it.
Itâs not likely to develop itself - someone would have to do it. So I would acknowledge that it âworksâ, so thanks for the review of that old video. Now I guess it depends if it gets developed and refined.
Powering an existing coal or nuke plantâs generator is a long way from intermittently pulling on a bicycle pump. Someone would have to become interested enough to refine it, go through some iterations and improve upon it.
And Iâm sure this is not the first time someone has volunteered this same supposed Einstein quote on whatever AWE forum is in effect. John has been "Pro-tem president of some supposed AWE organization for one seventh (1/7) of a century, while âauthorsâ are still citing Altaeros as a current AWE effort. Funny how many years we all sat in abject hope and admiration over Makani, while the whole time they were getting ready to just give up⌠And now, weâre stuck between waiting for any real news out of Skysails, and Dave Santos going from bicycle pump to Terawatts.
What about Magenn? Run it as a magnus kite-reeler! I guess weâre all just still waiting for kite-reeling to âreally get startedââŚ
By process of elimination, the downwind Surface Approach Sector is favored for South Pole Wind Energy, giving plenty of clearance to air transport operations. Power-kite AWE is the favored form of Wind Energy by lowest mass and most flexible deployment. A summer AWES demo would be a logical starting goal, with some contribution of power to the Station. Temporary electrical line shallow trenched as needed. Output of about 100kW from a footprint of about 300m diameter under a fight ceiling of about 100m.
That would fulfill the most important traditional requirement for AWE proposed siting: That the site be sufficiently remote that nobody can verify whether it is even running, let alone how well. Best if the location is so remote that repairs, parts delivery, and maintenance, are as difficult as possible.
Letâs Keep in mind revolutionary modern technologies that first gained a remote foothold. Integrated circuits and solar cells found use on satellites before being commonplace.
More-
Power Kites have already proven essential in Polar Exploration.
Thanks for that Dave. Donât forget âThe Wright Brothersâ. If AWE systems were advancing as fast as airplanes 120 years ago, they would be in common use by now. The solar cells used in satellites were well-proven on Earth before anyone sent them into space. They didnât just send their all-talk experimental prototypes into space to see how they worked. You guys have been going on with your endless nonsense and excuses for 14 years now. You never stay on any one concept for more than a few months, and never get anything working at all. Iâd say, rather than talking about finding a sufficiently-remote test site that nobody can see how badly your dream-only wannabe-system is failing, try actually building and running a system that produces significant power NOW, NOT putting it off to talk about the remotest site you can possibly think of. That is nothing but your typical attempts at diversion of attention from the fact that you guys still can;t even think of a single decent way to do AWE, let alone build one, let alone run one⌠You can talk forever. Means next-to-nothing.
Just so, the âfirst powering of homesteads by kiteâ are nomadic homes at sea (Race for Water) and ice caps (Windsled). In time will come mainstream home power.
As usual Dave, trying to change word definitions to fit whatever your ever-shifting narrative may be on any given day. Some would just call it âlyingâ. Pulling a boat is NOT powering a house. Even if someone lives on the boat, moving a house is not powering a house. Nice try, once again. Threatening to power X hundred homes by date Y at remote location Z is not powering a house, just like pulling a boat is not powering a house. Pulling a boat (or surfboard) was how this whole AWE thing started for most people. Nobody ever called windsurfing âpowering a houseâ.
There is a 32 foot yacht with two V-8 engines, parked in my backyard. Nobody has ever called it a âhouseâ.
You really have nothing left but a few tired remaining gasps of hot air.
You can stop now. Come back and let the world know how your Jalbert triangles are working. Not before, after. No more fake ânews of the futureâ from you.
Of course, this is an actual project.
Sail and Motor Yachts are defined by their living accommodations. WindSled houses a crew on long voyages that set endurance records. Race for Water is on a 5-year mission with quite posh accommodations. The kite system âuses large towing kites to propel the yacht forwardâ
The towing kite â Race For Water
What better way than AWE to eventually repower the South Pole Station? This is the exact diesel generator unit used there, with a simple clutch modification suited to covert to Kite-hybrid Power-
And here you are promoting doing a pilot project with a not yet existing solution. You need a working prototype before you can do a pilot project. I would have expected from a topic like this an analysis of what it would take and what the benefits and drawbacks could be of deploying a system like that of SkySails or KitePower vs other solutions as they are of a higher technology readiness level than your sketch.
Also, if youâre going to relay what other people say, put their content inside quotes please, with attribution.
I stand by my postings here.
I serve as VP (Africa) in JAL.
From Dave Santos: "The South Pole AWE Pilot Project Site Analysis properly begins as a concept, as details of a plan. Indeed, AWE at the South Pole could be done by any number of existing AWES on the market, for example SkySails and Kitepower, as noted (even multiple AWES archetypes side-by-side) but that is not what the closed-down Topic of âPreliminary Site Analysisâ is about. Please let the analysis proceed without interference.
Based on the marked Site Plan provided, initial South Pole AWE Pilot Project Site Analysis accounts for Station no-go zones based on scientific needs, like uncontaminated air from upwind, or Quiet-Zone seismic/acoustic sampling, and clearance from Air Transport operations, Interconnectivity to existing electrical infrastructure, and so on. Siting AWE demos next to the Station Access Corridor is the initial analytical conclusion.
Exact attribution of these ideas is unnecessary when Team or Venture statements are made by consensus. JohnO and I write together here for JAL and VIP third-parties on potentially powering the South Pole by AWE. The mystery-writer here is whoever is writing behind Windyâs mask, unattributed. This public record of South Pole AWE Pilot Project Site Analysis is being harmed.
Doug is very welcome by JAL to comparatively analyze siting AWE at his home, whether or not has a suitable AWES ready. Where better to deploy early AWE capability than the South Pole, where diesel costs $40USD/gal, the wind is the best on Earth, and large conventional wind turbines too unwieldly and massive to deliver?"
