I think from my point of view the problems with the Daisy and most other AWE designs are related to airborne mass and drag. So if you add a lot of weight with a magnetic fluid generator the lifter kite will grow excessively. Just my hunch, of course you may want to do some calculations to get more accurate numbers.
I dont think there is a problem with the power transfer capability of the tether shaft [TRPT].
Now if you add propellers to the kites and make them more rigid, you are looking at something a mix of Daisy and Makani. I think noone went there yet, the reason being the complexity of solving that in real life. That being said, it would probably be one of the more efficient designs in AWE. But no longer a simple design.
Iād think I would have to do with the lift to weight ratio. Essential theres a few ways of going about it. Poly tubing with coils or copper tubing. Poly tubing would be the lighter option. Though the copper tube being the strongest option. Say you have a final ring filed with magnetic fluid. It weighs 2-3kg. The kite would need to be able to lift that with all the tethering gear. Even a ball park figure a 6-1 lift ratio. would need a kite able to lift 6 times its own weight at variable wind speeds.
Iām reminded of box kites usually quite bulky, but also very ridged. But have loads of lift. The more I think about potential design direction I realise there are many ways to go. Even a spinning box kite. With the hollow rings inside. Using a combo of the Magnus effect. With lift surfaces. The windswept design definitely would suit this as an application. With a large sweeping diameter.
I donāt think it would take all that much to achieve it.
I can recall hollow generator designs with a magnetic ball bearings. Used by joggers. They used poly tube and coils. I could imagine copper tape being used to wrap the tubing and a rectified converting it from dc to ac where required.
Wow
Windswept and Interesting was top trending video on the BBC website for a while last week.
Which is a bit disappointing as that means we distracted people from getting work done at COP26.
It is somewhat a good thing. because it helps people focus on the diversity of solutions. If cop26 is to be successful it need to know what options there are out there. We have known about motors and generators for nearly 300 years lord kelvins experiments are a prime example. We have the technology and understanding to go green. With the right paring and coupling of technology the skyās the limit.
Just an idea of what a stator ring could look like currently a work in process.
PVC pipe/ hula hoop. With 2layer windings 50mm in length. As mentioned previously fill with magnetic fluid or magnetic ball barrings. Fix to a spinning kite and hey presto. Space windings geometrical. in 6 or 12 groupings. I wound two coils to show. Spacing and to show components potential. Just using what I have around to demonstrate the concept.
Whatever happens, youāll Still have line drag and compression on the rings so all the magnet filled tubes, coils, electric tethers, are extra mass which needs to be justified.
circular tubes instead of polygon forms are extra mass. maybe less drag.
Will the magnet mass only be on the falling side of the hoop?
How would that affect turbine handling?
I suspectā¦ keen to be proven wrongā¦
The power density youāll get from this canāt match the loss of efficiency it brings from the extra mass in the transmission
In the fluid version it wouldnāt matter as much. in the ball bearing version it might have some impact with the higher wind speeds if reaches a resonance point. What I had imagined was the going to look something like a clacker toy. with kinetic potential thrown in. You will need a bearing set like you see on the pendulums of Newtonās cradle. I suspect in higher rotation you might see it reach a resonance where the ball bearings are space out. But still acting in the same way. Maybe unstable to begin with but would harmonise. As rotation speed increases. Most ball bearings are a few grams. Even with a 200 gram set up with rare earth magnetics. I suspect the effects would be small and increase along its square potential. Then thereās a question of impact resistance and general ware and tear? Which would effect any maintenance cycle. As far as I understand ware can be negated somewhat the the rare earth in the alloys. With chromium and manganese forming a great part of the resistant qualities. All part of neodymium magnetic family.
More visuals, looking at how this is made while thinking about design. You donāt suppose it could be adapted or elongated to provide structure to a kite?
I also notice this has the an armature internally like the what ive got in mind. An this is far older in design. Orientation is key. It does demonstrate the principle rather nicely. So spherical would do as well as a ring.
@Freeflying You have completely fried my poor wee mind. Send a spare & untangled one over if you have one.
Very glad to have lead you to these spirally thoughts but thereās no way Iām going to even pretend I knew what was going on in that video.
Itās very cool to think you may make some sort of spooky generator, with falling magnets inside the walls of a kite rotor which has coils wrapped around its toroid.
Iām not taking any credit for your ability to imagine that. Bloody well done.
I hear there working on expanding human memory. Give it a few years and it maybe you might get download to unscramble a few things. But Iām afraid in all my hyper focus. it just some I havenāt got to send you as of yet. I would advise a sea shaman to untangle a few knots. Though I doubt any potions or lotions would fix the awe struck & dumb founded predicament for find your self in. I know it was a real brain twister. tangled neurones and all that. It like a day down the races. Tesla use to think about his work before engaging in it. It was rumour he could imagine it before could build it. Never mind the fact he may have been autistic. Anyway I guess all those hours on YouTube werenāt wasted after all? Applying principles is a main stay for me. Donāt even get me start on the Casimir effect. Or it thinks I would bust a brain cells or two. If I was to say zpms and singularity modules? I guess it might ride over most peoples heads. Its in the maths, more over geometry. The ancient left clues to it. It was just waiting for the right kind of mind to read into it. Like before the swatikia was misappropriated it was a peace symbol. it meant energy. And fold the arms into the centre you get a turbine. Same is true for a Maltese cross and iron cross. Totally a matter of special interest. Then bolting ideas together. An open tube version of the torus is just a magnetic launcher. Which bae systems have been playing with, with thier rail guns. 3kg slug at hypersonic speeds. It also reminds me a little of some of the magnet gyro toys way back when. That rolled along a steel wire and would flip back and forth.
Might be useful in some of the looping kites as a direct transfer mechanism. Iāve no doubt the ideas can marry up. Then be complimentary and eco friendly. My brain storming can come up with some really wild suggestions. but often based on something Iāve encountered and thought could it do task b instead if the answer yes it all good. Cop 26 fell short in my opinion. As it could of draw on far more to go green. Alas it must escape there minds. Vested interest and all that. It often the simplest solution that work best. I stop there for now. before kite have warp drives. Lol, oh and thanks much appreciate.
As for life analogues Magnetic River Homopolar Demo - 3 Rollers - YouTube demonstrates exactly what I was thinking about. I canāt see why it couldnāt be adapted. For all aspects of the green sector. Basically it that in an spinning aerofoil. Should get a large amount of Kw out of it
Reminder:
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Rod
I might be able to suggest something considering the amount of research into magnetic bearings linear accelerators. hours of YouTube homework Iāve studied, I read Medium scales for torque transfer systems onshore and offshore. It reminds me a lot if the mƶbius track
Found it interesting you looked at how big you could make one 1GW and a 1km across is truly massive. 10kw definitely achieve able. If using a, U or C channel pre rolled with space for the magnetic to slot neatly into place would reduce the need for bulky extra like aligning wheels. This would allow for the coils to run smoothly through it center. It all so give you the option of where you place fixing and attachments point. Thereās no end to how much you could scale. it the inverse of the magnetic fluid idea.
Another thing you might want to take inspiration from is the rings transporter from stargate. If you wish to go the magnetic route. You already part way there with the stack of kite rotors. Which looks like
which is very similar to your design. In the aspect of its core principles. The could even counter rotate due to magnetic clogging. There no end of stacking or nesting that you could do here. the fact that it can even have a aerodynamic profiles helps too. It might be a stretch of the imagination and I wouldnāt know how plausible it would be? but any twisting hole creates a vortices much like a tornado. That just my physical observation of natural processes. Iām not even sure if vortex tethering is a thing? Or even the sort of control suffices you might need? My guess would be similar to the Avro car.
Iād reckon you could build a prototype cheaply enough. If you can get 2mm -5mm thick copper flat bar in Suitable lengths or complete coils. Much like banding on creates. Supporting struts to hold the coils in place. then choose where to put the magnetic parts. Then I think you would be away. Added bonus due to induction. You can have wireless transmission. Much like the wireless chargers. You see out there. But way bigger. It just a suggestion, a totally bonkers suggestion. But 10kw could easily be surpassed this way. If i was to guess a ball park figure of 3m diameter Ā£1000 per rotation component. Most of that cost would be the copper and magnets. you can get 100 ceramic magnets for Ā£30 if my memory serves me right depending supplier. There usually fairly strong magnets. Copper roofing strip is what your looking for and itās about Ā£70 a coil. Then it is only flat bar bent into a v to form as many supporting struts. As needed. That just the back yard bodgers approach. If you donāt have much money you get to figure out how cheaply you can get things made. Pretty quick. The future is magnetic. And electric. Ps. if you use poly magnetic principles you will get far more energy out of it due to concentrated magnetic field. I hope that this inspires a few idea in AWE.
You certainly present a lot of ideas there.
And they are very @Freeflying
The Windswept mission has now spent so much time assessing Kite Turbine Wizzardry that Stargate will be taking inspiration from us now.
Lol.
Reminds of what a friend of mine said when he saw windswept design. He thought it looked an advanced airborne defence system. Yep so would have to agree. You probably would give stargate a run for its money. Wind power as well. No naquadah needed. Great stuff.
with kinetic potential thrown in. You will need a bearing set like you see on the pendulums of Newtonās cradle. I suspect in higher rotation you might see it reach a resonance where the ball bearings are space out. But still acting in the same way. Maybe unstable to begin with but would harmonise. As rotation speed increases. Most ball bearings are a few grams. Even with a 200 gram set up with rare earth magnetics. I suspect the effects would be small and increase along its square potential. Then thereās a question of impact resistance and general ware and tear? Which would effect any maintenance cycle. As far as I understand ware can be negated somewhat the the rare earth in the alloys. With chromium and manganese forming a great part of the resistant qualities. All part of neodymium magnetic family.
